Capn12

Hey Alex...who did your sig? I want someone who knows how to make one, and not my Dollar Store style of making them to redesign mine for now. I want the same pic as I have now, but set up better.

Now you are next Steff...having a sig with a SOx player that didn't do very well is unacceptable!!!

I will admit, and apologize, that I was a WSI person for quite a while until I found this site. I had quite a few rousing post wars on WSI before I just decided that it was pointless to talk to most of the folks there. Happy to be here now!

That one was COMPLETELY deserved though, Steff.

CWSOX45, I wasn't trying to call you out or anything...was just trying to show our banned pal that he could at least he could get his facts straight before posting. There aren't too many folks on here that think Frank should be hitting in the #3 hole, especially myself.

In my opinion the White Sox should do what they can to deal Koch, but it's probably pretty close to impossible for anyone to take a guy that lost 6-7 miles off his fastball inexplicably (I believe he's injured). Konerko is a personal favorite, but has no value on the trade market (I don't believe they'll just dump him) so we're stuck with him. Unfortunately, the odd man out here is more than likely Ordonez, provided we get maximum in talent return on a trade. I would make the Ordonez for Soriano deal straight up if the Yankees would have it, it increases salary flexibility, is fiscally responsible and gives us the opportunity to possibly keep Everett & stay in the picture to re-sign Colon. Let's say we make the Ordonez/Soriano trade & sign Everett to a 2 year contract at 8 million a year (I realize I'm probably low on the offer #) & manage to land Colon at 13 million per year for X amt of years. We're now talking about 22.2 million for Colon, Soriano (isn't he projected at 1.2 million next year?) and Everett in 2004 rather than 14 million for Ordonez. It just makes more sense. Sorry about the long GM rant! ApplingsRevenge I do agree with ya, ApplingsRevenge. If I can make a deal with the Yanks, Ordonez for Soriano straight up, I accept it before I hang the phone up. That deal makes too much sense for you not to take. It solves 3 problems at once; #1) We move 14 mill off the payroll, #2) We get someone young to fill our second base hole, #3) We now have an extra 12 million to do what we need. I can only dream of a deal like this being done.

You can be arbitration eligible after your second year if you had at least 86 days on the roster in your second year and were in the top 17% of second year players in regards to service time. Days do matter. Free agency also comes after 6 years of service time, not calendar years. Players with 3, 4, or 5 years of service time and the top 17% of the 2 year players may opt for arbitration in order to come to a contract 2003 was Martes 4th year in MLB, but I don't know who defines a "year" of MLB service.

I'm not sure its gonna be ALL about money for Petitte this time around. I can realistically see him heading to Houston. If that happens, then its inevitable that Colon goes to NY, whether he says he wants to play there or not.

Hey Koch This...just a suggestion here...ya might wanna remove the "UN" part on the Unbeatable Pair of 7's in your sig....

Then you have Mussina, Contreras, Lieber, and Weaver.... If thats the case, the NYY fans will be :puke all year. Ans we know that George won't take that rotation...

You are the one who claimed that Frank hit .250 with RISP last season. Stating your obvious ignorance on the subject is simply a fact, not a character attack. You do a good job of grinding your own character through the mud. You don't need my assistance for that. Obviously, your reading skills are on par with my 2 year old nephew, although he may have a slight edge. If you would have actually "taken the time" to look back, you woulda seen that CWSOX45 posted that, and not I. Sorry you had that confused, as it only takes 20-30 seconds to actually confirm or refute your statements.

For arguments sake, here are Franks numbers for 2003 in situational areas: G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS Bases Empty 151 307 23 68 13 0 23 23 43 72 0 0 .221 .325 .489 .813 Runners On 145 239 64 78 22 0 19 82 57 43 0 0 .326 .464 .657 1.121 RISP 121 125 47 35 9 0 8 52 32 27 0 0 .280 .440 .544 .984 RISP w/2 Outs 73 59 22 18 4 0 3 25 10 14 0 0 .305 .423 .525 .948 Bases Loaded 22 6 14 2 0 0 1 9 2 2 0 0 .333 .444 .833 1.278 Also, JeffHanneman, not sure who you consider to be a "kid" here, but ya might wanna build up a reputation on Soxtalk before you start endless flames and attacks on other members character. Just a thought

I wouldnt pay $20 mill for anyone playing the game right now. The top 2 players that I may pay $15 mill per season to would probably be Todd Helton and Alex Rodriguez. I woulda wanted Todd Helton about 3 years ago, right when he turned 27. You get that Todd Helton for 5 years, 60-80 mill.....thats some production.

Welcome to the jungle is one of my favirote songs, by my favirote bands. Guns 'N Roses. They kick ass. Top 5 Guns 'n Roses songs 1) November Rain 2) Welcome to the Jungle 3) Paradise City 4) Sweet Child of Mine 5) Don't Cry You are forgetting one of the best GnR songs ever!!! "What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach... So, you get what we had here last week Which is the way he wants it! Well, he gets it! N' I don't like it any more than you men."* Look at your young men fighting Look at your women crying Look at your young men dying The way they've always done before Look at the hate we're breeding Look at the fear we're feeding Look at the lives we're leading The way we've always done before My hands are tied The billions shift from side to side And the wars go on with brainwashed pride For the love of God and our human rights And all these things are swept aside By bloody hands time can't deny And are washed away by your genocide And history hides the lies of our civil wars D'you wear a black armband When they shot the man Who said "Peace could last forever" And in my first memories They shot Kennedy An I went numb when I learned to see So I never fell for Vietnam We got the wall of D.C. to remind us all That you can't trust freedom when it's not in your hands When everybody's fightin' for their promised land And I don't need your civil war It feeds the rich while it buries the poor Your power hungry sellin' soldiers In a human grocery store Ain't that fresh I don't need your civil war Look at the shoes you're filling Look at the blood we're spilling Look at the world we're killing The way we've always done before Look in the doubt we've wallowed Look at the leaders we've followed Look at the lies we've swallowed And I don't want to hear no more My hands are tied For all I've seen has changed my mind But still the wars go on as the years go by With no love of God or human rights 'Cause all these dreams are swept aside By bloody hands of the hypnotized Who carry the cross of homicide And history bears the scars of our civil wars "We practice selective annihilation of mayors and government officials for example to create a vacuum Then we fill that vacuum as popular war advances. Peace is closer"** I don't need your civil war It feeds the rich while it buries the poor Your power hungry sellin' soldiers In a human grocery store Ain't that fresh I don't need your civil war I don't need your civil war Your power hungry sellin' soldiers In a human grocery store Ain't that fresh I don't need your civil war I don't need one more war I don't need one more war Whaz so civil 'bout war anyway

Heres a name I haven't heard anyone mention, although its a long shot and I personally HATE the guy: Ichiro Suzuki. He is a Fa, and only made $3 mill this year. If we were able to move Maggs for the betterment of the team, you could get that guy as a replacement for half the salary of Ordonez, and still give Ichiro a huge salary increase. Thoughts?

With all that being said, WU83, we still will have #35 on the roster throwing his little pouting fits in 2004.

OK, I saw someone asking about this somewhere on a post, so I did a little bit of research. Here is where the Sox stand in terms of 2004 payroll. It is indeed not real pretty right now: Billy Koch: $6.375 mil Paul Konerko: $8.0 mil *Esteban Loaiza: $3.5 mil Magglio Ordonez: $14.0 mil *Frank Thomas: $6.0 mil ---------------------------------- Thats $37.875 million in 5 players. The *'s designate that those salarise are based on options held on the named players that the Sox/player are expected to exercise. Also, you must consider the fact that guys like Joe Crede, Miguel Olivo, Aaron Rowand, Dan Wright and Willie Harris can be salary controlled by the club due to MLB service time. Also, we have Buehrle, CLee, Garland, and Wunsch that can go to arbitration. Finally, we have Robbie, Sandy, Jose, Graffy, Sullivan, Flash, Colon and Marte that can look at Free Agency. The guys in charge have some serious issues to consider for alot of these guys.

Just thought it was interesting to look at some other players contracts. Heres a few interesting ones: Todd Helton 1B COL Signed Mar 2001 - 9 years/$141.5M 2003: $10.6M 2004: $11.6M 2005: $12.6M 2006: $16.6M 2007: $16.6M 2008: $16.6M 2009: $16.6M 2010: $16.6M 2011: $19.1M 2012: Team option $23.0M or $4.6M buyout -Can void the deal after 2007 ---OK, this guy is 30 right now. Yes, he is an UNBELIEVABLE talent, but he is signed at $16 mil minimum until he is 39!!! Ouch. Mike Hampton LHP ATL Signed Dec 2000 - 8 years/$121M 2001: $8.0M (+$20.0M signing bonus deferred until end of contract) 2002: $8.5M 2003: $11.0M [ATL $2.0M / FLA $9.0M] 2004: $12.0M [ATL $2.0M / FLA $10.0M] 2005: $12.5M [ATL $1.5M / FLA $11.0M] 2006: $13.5M 2007: $14.5M 2008: $15.0M 2009: Team option $20.0M or $6.0M buyout -S/b: $1M to charity, $19M paid in 10 annual instalments -Bonuses: $150K MVP WS, $100K Cy Young/MVP LCS, $50K 2-5 Cy Young voting/MVP LDS, $25K AS selection/Gold Glove/Silver Slugger -After trades: COL pays signing bonus, 2003-5 as above, 2006-9 ATL liable ---For the next 2 years, the Braves got a HUGE deal in Hampton, IMO. That deal was amazing for Hampton to have gotten when Colorado and O'Dowd were going crazy with the contracts. He is still one of my favorite players. Chan Ho Park RHP TEX Signed Dec 2001 - 5 years/$65M 2002: $11.0M 2003: $12.0M 2004: $13.0M 2005: $14.0M 2006: $15.0M -Can void deal after 2002 unless team pays additional $6M by Nov 10th ---Good lord, I'd HATE to be stuck with that contract. What bad planning.

Just thought I'd pass this tidbit of info along, concerning Colon's past salary information: Bartolo Colon RHP CHW Signed Mar 1999 - 5 years/$17.25M 1999: $0.5M (+$0.5M signing bonus) 2000: $1.0M 2001: $2.5M 2002: $4.5M 2003: $8.25M option exercised 2004: Free Agent -2003 option can rise from $6M to $8.25M if he meets incentives This guys financial status has almost doubled ever year...at some point, he has to reach his cap, and I think that the 12-13 that the Sox offered him is it. If there is another team to offer him more, and I don't think that there will be, then its the defination of overpaying.

Me thinks you are right on that one, Killa....JR had to do some serious swallowing of pride just to offer that to Colon. He damn sure isn't gonna leave that offer out for another pitcher.

I'm still thinking that the Sox are gonna give Reed or AaRow every opportunity in March to win the CF job. In-house players have the inside track IMO, and we really don't need to focus on spending $$$ at CF. SS and 2B, along with SP are our needs. I think we are all jumping the gun on Colon. The guy is probably gonna find out that the FA market isn't what his agent is telling him it will be. The big money owners aren't gonna be forking out the dough this year. That $12 mill per season will start looking mighty tempting at that point.

Jas, I'm a bit confused...Cabrerra? SUrely you don't mean Floridas Miguel Cabrerra?? Theres NO WAY they let that young man get away, maybe 3 months ago, but not now. Second and short are our concerns in terms of position players.....and after having some time to think about it, I'm not sure if Robbie is our answer. His hitting has just went down south in a hurry. Yeah he can still field better than most second basemen, but with him hitting #1 or 2 in the batting order, thats gonna be tough. Especially if we put CLee in the 3 hole, as I think he should be.

Good to hear, killa...I'm headed out to Vegas for trip #8 in December...Gotta go by Monte Carlo Brewery to have my beer sampler platter!!!

Is that intuition, Jas, or something you've read somewhere? I know he is injury prone at his age, but I thought he had 1 more year left.

Oops...yes I did...the Moose...so.. Mussina, Wells, Contreras, Weaver, Lieber. There still would be some yelling by the NY folks, I'm sure...that won't cut it. Lieber coming off the surgery, WEaver having no consistency, Wells constant back issues, Contreras has established nothing in his 1st year.....they have 1 established frontline starter in Mussina