Dick Allen

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 28, 2014 -> 09:53 AM) Ubaldo also costs 33.3x what Paulino cost PLUS a 2nd round pick. No big deal. Salty's faded, but he'd have been a hell of a lot more valuable at $40 million and no 2nd round pick than Ubaldo right now. Paulino was also good between 2011 and 2012. Look it up yourself. I also have no problem with xFIP, but showed that he has two peripherals that are working against each other - his K/BB is in his favor while a 29% GB rate is an absolutely terrible thing, especially with non-overpowering stuff. One of those is going to give eventually, and if it's his K/BB, his xFIP is going to rise very quickly and he's going to start giving up a lot of runs. The only place Paulino played where his ERA was below 5.83 was KC, and that was 162 innings and 27 starts over 2 years. How is that being a great pitcher over a fairly large period of time? That was also 2 surgeries ago, and his short stint in the minors last year look just like his performances this season. I still would take Jimenez as he has had a few good starts. And no one seems to mention Santana. I guess he is doing too well. (Although I preferred Jimenez myself, and noted it here)

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 28, 2014 -> 09:35 AM) How many of those numbers by the bullpen members have been compiled in closing situations? We could take Purcey's numbers from last year and argue he was better than Addison Reed...should we so choose. Belisario's certainly not going to come out on top of any type of statistical comparison going by this past week. Or, 14/16 saves versus Belisario's two blown saves already. Wait...blown saves don't matter for middle relievers, right? Well, then comparing statistics of middle relievers has little or next to nothing to do with the statistics of those getting the 25th, 26th and 27th outs in a game. Besides, if that was actually the case...your argument was true, then Rick Hahn would be on the phone right now trading for three more position player versions of Matt Davidson and welcoming Putnam/Belisario/Petricka not to let the door him them on the butt on the way out. OMG Caulfield and I agree.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 28, 2014 -> 09:35 AM) Take a stance for once in your life instead of arguing to argue. You might feel better about yourself. I take a stance. You just don't like my stance so you make crap up like this saying I don't take one. It is funny the post after you criticize my "stances", you say I don't take a stance.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 28, 2014 -> 09:29 AM) Petricka, Putnam, and Webb all have ERAs lower than him (on the active roster). That puts him 4th best. Belisario, Putnam, Downs, Petricka, and Webb all have lower FIPs than him. That puts him 6th best. Putnam, Belisario, and Petricka all have WHIPs lower than him. That puts him 4th best. His xFIP is nice, but it's aided by a high K rate and low BB rate. He has an incredibly low GB rate right now and, while his HR/FB is high right now, he's had problems with homers in the past. Something's going to give. Also, believing that a guy with good stuff who was a great pitcher for a fairly large period of time was going to be a good pitcher is not trolling. It's believing in something. I've already owned up to that. BTW, how's Ubaldo doing? You wanted to give him $50 million. That would have looked a lot better going to Saltalamacchia, wouldn't it? And I "only" wanted him for $40 million. That would have been a hell of a lot better than anything you would have committed the money to which, as I recall, was basically anything Marty wanted. /drops mic Ubaldo is doing a lot better than Felipe Paulino. And Salty is fading fast. Oh to have him for double what anyone else would pay him. So reliever ERA means a lot and FIP means a lot. xFIP, a number you pointed out to show us how great Paulino would be I guess doesn't matter. And Paulino was a great pitcher for a fairly large period of time? LMAO, you have officially lost your mind.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 28, 2014 -> 09:23 AM) Trolling is making up ridiculous arguments and making people "prove" you wrong, and once they do, changing to another ridiculous argument and repeating the process. Or just dragging in non sequiturs from other threads. And the ridiculous argument here is Addison Reed is a middle reliever. which he pointed out yesterday. , and Addison Reed would be the 5th best pitcher in the White Sox bullpen.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 28, 2014 -> 09:05 AM) He has 3. Fastball, slider, change. He doesn't use the changeup as much, but he should feature it more. Probably something Arizona is doing with him. More trolling. I never said anything about last year. He was fairly solid last year as a closer, but had a tendency to give up big homers (WAR is not the best measure for relievers, but it's not the worst either, so I will let this pass). However, he's been pretty mediocre this year. There's certainly room to improve, but that doesn't change what's happened. Thus, he would be the 4th or 5th best pitcher in the Sox bullpen right now. If you would like, I can give you any number of measures to indicate this. His xFIP seems pretty good. He is 14 out of 16 in saves. Please provide the numbers. And please, it is not trolling. What is trolling is the guy suggesting Felipe Paulino may pitch 180 innings for the White Sox this year based on 7 starts in 2012 calling several posters "arguments" ridiculous this morning.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 28, 2014 -> 08:12 AM) Then make it. --- You can't because it's an absolutely ridiculous argument. He did nothing to me other than pitch like a middle reliever. I like/liked Reed. I honestly think, given his repertoire, he'd be better served in the rotation instead of the bullpen. The Sox bullpen has not been horrendous - have you watched games or seen the numbers the bullpen has put up, or are you still basing this off the first two weeks of the year? Greg, I'm pretty sure that if Adam Dunn puts up .275/.400/.500 next year for Texas or Houston or someone, you'd say that you gave him a B for his time with the Sox and whoever is currently playing for the White Sox would get a D. Addison Reed put up a 1.7 WAR last year. Seems like at his salary, he is a bargain. His k-rate is climbing. His walk rate is decreasing. If he would be the 5th best pitcher in the 2014 White Sox pen, this team should make the playoffs.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ May 28, 2014 -> 06:57 AM) Detroit should never have been the measuring stick even from the start of the season. This team, at best, is competing for the second Wild Card. As enjoyable as it is to see the Tigers lose, we should be hoping they win every time they play the Angels, Yankees, Orioles, Mariners, Twins, Royals and Indians. The only thing is if Verlander and Scherzer continue to struggle, you never know. Just remember the 2006 White Sox. How could a Tiger fan think they have a chance coming into that season, and the Sox started on fire, but the pitching faded. Perhaps making the postseason year after year after year is starting to catch up to their pitching staff. It was blamed for the Sox staff falling about back then. It doesn't seem very likey, I will give you that, but there could be some real problems with that team. Now watch them go win 11 in a row.

He gets DL'd with an inflamed shoulder after getting lit up and saying he felt great and would be better the next time out during the post game. There was no report of him having said shoulder examined, not that it means he didn't, but usually you hear something. He goes on a rehab assignment, gets lit up several outings, and the shoulder is suddenly a problem again when the rehab assignment is about up. Hmmmmmmmmm.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ May 27, 2014 -> 08:14 PM) This thread has it all. Creepy Avatar Guy creating argument after argument to troll. Caufield going off on a tangent completely unrelated the thread. And Marty. Awesome work guys. You make the site a joy to read. Another solid post.

I looked at the radar. I think even if this game gets delayed, they will finish it sometime tonight.

The average length of games has increased 29 minutes the last 10 years. They are now 3:08 on average. If they don't do something about it, it will hurt the game.

QUOTE (beautox @ May 27, 2014 -> 08:20 PM) I'm sure Frank Thomas would love to tell him about Jeff Nelson; .161/.275/.194 line with 11 strikeouts in 40 ABs Frank against Mussina was a different story. He had little league stats against him for a while, then couldn't touch him for a few years, then hit him hard again. And the only reason the Sox signed Jeff Nelson was to get Frank when he returned to town with the A's. It didn't work out for KW.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ May 27, 2014 -> 08:14 PM) It isn't my job to make the line up but it is pretty obvious you don't put the 2 guys that can't hit the damn pitcher back to back in the middle of the line up.. Your job is to complain. Don't tell us what the line up should be so you won't be exposed. But tell us what an idiot a guy who knows a lot more than any of us do about baseball is.

I was reading an article about Dave Duncan who is doing something for th DBacks these days. Supposedly he is totally into advanced metrics, but one thing he totally ignores is head to head match ups. He thinks the sample sizes are too small. I actually am kind of shocked by this considering he was a weak hitting catcher. I don't think it took him many ABs to realize he had no chance against certain guys.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ May 27, 2014 -> 08:10 PM) He is a pathetic excuse for a manager.. What should the line up be tonight?

Eaton admitted his leg is bothering him, but he is going to play through it.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ May 27, 2014 -> 01:01 PM) Track record + aging curve + any recent changes to mechanics + any recent changes to physiology + any potential future changes to mechanics + any potential future changes to physiology + current and future health risks. And everything other than track record you mentioned is based on some form of track record.

Non closing relievers will always have a horrid BS percentage because they can't accumulate saves, but can accumulate blown saves, and if you come in with a 1 run lead and a guy on 3rd with 2 out in the 7th inning, and the first guy you face hits a grounder the 3B kicks, you have just picked up a blown save. Or if you leave with a 1 run lead and a runner on first after pitching a couple of solid inningsand Scott Downs gives up a 2 run homer the next pitch, blown save.

Dynamic pricing basically kills day of game or day before game impulse buying, except for Family Sunday where cheap options are all over, and that was SRO this past Sunday. You can go to Stubhub. I wish the Sox would just kill that model. It cannot be working.

[ He would be on this team. Quit being ridiculous. No he would not. Not even close. Lindstrom was the closer to start, guess what, Lindstrom was on the team last year when Reed was closing.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 27, 2014 -> 11:33 AM) I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect that Davidson is going to be a starter at 3B, but right now, the Sox have a pretty good 3B. It's not as if Davidson has to play for the White Sox to provide value to them. Still, they felt strongly that about his bat and his upside so they traded a middle reliever for him. I will never have any problem with them doing that, which is why, as disappointing as Nestor Molina was and has been, I had no problem with that trade either. Addison Reed wasn't and isn't a middle reliever.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ May 27, 2014 -> 10:58 AM) No, and I elaborated what I did and didn't mean, very clearly, at least three times in that thread. If you read that, you're being dense on purpose (business as usual), and if you didn't read it, you shouldn't put words in others mouths. For the final time (although no one seems to be confused about this except you at this point), I said track record should be a component of what is used to predict future performance, but that the important factor in a GMs decision to value or acquire a player is, and should be, exclusively what that player will do going forward. Projections are mostly based on track record, and similar players' track record.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 27, 2014 -> 11:05 AM) He could certainly be traded in 2018, he could certainly be up in 2018, or he might not be contributing until then but if he's good enough, he'll likely be on the 40 man and we'll have a pretty good idea as fans if he is going to be a significant contributor. Many of us lauded the Nevin Griffith pick and signing in the 2nd, and he completely flopped. We had a pretty good idea that was going to happen too based on numbers and scouting reports within 4 years of drafting him. However, it's hard to know exactly what will happen 5 years from now. If you can tell me exactly, I would appreciate it. I'll write you up a TPS Report and you can let me know what more we can do at that point. EDIT: Either way, I see nothing that this has to do with my original point. Please try and get back on topic. But the point was I didn't think the 2nd round pick was as valuable as a lot of people and pointed out the draft was said to be HS heavy, so they player wouldn't contribute for 5 or 6 years making the pick less valuable, which you argued with. Now you say they will have a good idea within that timeframe. Great. We should have a good idea of Matt Davidson. What is he going to be? And when? You try to have it both ways. If you are going to say something, and it is wrong, don't just start calling me names and try to change the subject. Own up to it.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 27, 2014 -> 10:54 AM) I merely said you will likely have an idea after 4 years about whether or not someone will be contributing. Matt Davidson did within 4 years (and he was actualy up from August 11th on, so there goes your September call-up theory). If Hawkins is in AA/AAA in the next year or two, we'll have a pretty good idea with him too. That's entirely beside my point, which is the trolling aspect of it, bringing in previous arguments to fit round pegs into square holes. Either way, I'm not wrong on that - if you don't have a pretty good idea about whether a guy is going to be on the MLB roster or have a shot at contributing value to the MLB team either directly or indirectly by the time he has to be added to the 40-man, then odds are pretty good he's not going to contribute. That argument isn't flawed whatsoever, is perfectly reasonable, and is not on topic anyways. You have done a perfect job of fitting the exact definition of the White Sox fan I'm describing though. Thank you for that. Then why did you use your argument against me when I said if a HS player was picked in the second round in 2014, he probably wouldn't contribute to winning until 2019 or 2020?