Dick Allen

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 05:20 PM) Yeah you win. Cooper sucks. Get rid of him too. Just keep Walker and rebuild around him. I'm glad you see the light.

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 04:47 PM) The point with Betemit is the one and only thing he could do relatively well was hit. But with the Sox, he couldn't even do that. Just another of Walker's failed students. Danks, Floyd, Contreras, Buerhle, Jackson, Vazquez, Jenks, Thornton, Linebrink, Dotel, Koch, Wells, Colon, Loaisa, Peavy, all they could do is pitch and all have gone through extended slumps, at least the pitching equivalent of 50 AB. Its time to get rid of Cooper.

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 04:36 PM) No, it doesn't ruin my post. Paulie went through other periods of extended slumps after 2003. And Paulie did learn a lot because of those extended slumps which is a credit to him. He probably learned more from those slumps than from Walker and look at what he had to go through before he finally figured it out. Although I wouldn't credit Walker with Paulie's current success, even if you insist on doing so it would prove the exception to the rule. Walker has a track record of watching his hitters go through extended slumps. Walker's body of work includes the sub-par results from his hitters like Rios, Dunn, Swisher, Betemit, Uribe, Beckham ..... Name one player who doesn't go through an extended slump. Just one. How about guys like Thome, Dye, Rowand, Podsednik, Quentin, Crede, AJP didn't drop off, Uribe snapped back after being horrid in Colorado, then he slipped, then snapped back then slipped again. Iguchi was pretty good, Ramirez, despite what some will tell you about his expectations, won a Silver Slugger while making a little over $1 million a year. I believe the expectations weren't that or he would have been paid a lot more. I posted something earlier, but in the 8 seasons Walker was the hitting coach, it might shock you to know, the White Sox offense was ranked higher in the league than the White Sox pitching 4 times. I guarantee the Sox spend more money on pitchers per average salary than position players.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 04:20 PM) I think it's time to consider most of the remaining games 'must wins'. I agree. We have to keep an eye on Cleveland. I hope Hawk will keep us posted on their score tonight, but this game tonight is big.

A loss tonight would really hurt the Sox playoff chances.

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 03:54 PM) Yeah, he really helped Paul Konerko alright. He watched him go through a couple off horrendous half-season long slumps until he "figured it out." What a genius that Walker is. You do realize Walker took over halfway through 2003 don't you? Kind of ruins your post.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 02:29 PM) I kinda agree with what you're saying as long as you're not expecting a quick-fix. Like Balta said, you're probably looking at guys in low A/High A with risk but a ton of upside. So either way, you're going to have a lot of question marks in the rotation next year and in 2013. You'll just have a better long-term inventory. Cooper is here, every pitcher should be good, right?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 02:42 PM) And he told these stories to sell a book, which isn't exactly the most noble of reasons to spill his beans. He has needed money for a while, which is why he continues with side projects at all times too, including boxing and independent baseball leagues. If he doesn't need money, do these every get told? When it comes to speaking about players who used steroids, I trust Canseco. When it comes to the effects of steroids, it's harder to trust one source who has likely embellished quite a bit to sell books. You trust him? Really? The guy who said Clemens didn't uses steroids and is one guy who would never cheat on his wife? Then its later revealed Clemens gave him hush money. Canseco is a whore. You can have lunch with him for $100.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 10:46 AM) From Jim Margalus: What's interesting in the article is the link to a conversation he had with Carlton Fisk about hitting coaches.

Just found this. The consolation prize wasn't good. Victor Martinez is leaving the Red Sox for the Detroit Tigers, having accepted a four-year deal worth $50 million. The story was broken out of Venezuela this morning by Ignacio Serrano of El Nacional. Serrano reported that Martinez was offered four years and $48 million from the Orioles and three years and $48 million from the White Sox. Why he would take $12.5 million a year from Detroit and pass up $16 million a year from Chicago isn't clea I'd guess the reason he didn't take the Sox cash is there probably were some stipulations or deferred money or some other things.

The fact that Dunn never picked up a bat in the offseason I think speaks volumes. Maybe getting away for a little while is good, but who is to say if he did some offseason baseball work he might have been a .280 guy with a.420 OBP and hit 50 homers a year? His offseason routine, which I don't know if the White Sox had any inkling of before they signed him, shows, at least to me, the guy was satisfied with what he was and really didn't either care or wasn't willing to put more work in to be better. That's a red flag. So if they did know...................... Also didn't the Sox initially go after Victor Martinez?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2011 -> 08:08 AM) Its a scary trend that many times Kenny has brought in a veteran with a history of success, they have failed here. You can throw Javy Vazquez on to that list as well. That doesn't speak well for Ozzie. Thome worked out well. Dye was good. Cabrera was an ass, but did what he always did. I don't think you can pin all the failure on Ozzie. KW pops off "Chicago tough" all the time. How stoned does one have to be not be be able to see that whatever "Chicago tough" is, Alex Rios is not? I think a little friction between the manager and GM isn't a bad thing, but there has been too much for too long. I hope JR doesn't pick one or decide to give it another year.

Its certainly not his eyes. He and the rest of the Sox get those checked. He's just not ready to hit most of the time. You just hope its mental, because if its because his body as irreversably slowed down, and he can't get to average fastballs anymore, JR made a larger donation than Alex and Ursula Snelious ever would.

Coop will fix 'em.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 12, 2011 -> 10:12 PM) Well, I personally think we've had a ton of players have bad years. I think our pitching again has been overrated. The starters were excellent for a long time, however. I think the team has had very very bad hitting (not Ozzie's fault really), the team is very very slow on the basepaths (not Ozzie's fault), the team cannot bunt (Ozzie deserves 80 percent of the blame there), some very poor relief performances when it mattered (not Ozzie's fault). But why will all those types of problems not occur in Miami if Ozzie is the manager? They happen here, I think they can happen anywhere.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Sep 12, 2011 -> 10:17 PM) I guess there is a better chance to over achieve there were under achieving is more common. There really is no reason to retain any of these coaches. Cooper seems to only have short term success. Its time for some sort of overhaul. This current arrangement isn't working. If its only Ozzie or only KW, you're just delaying the inevitable, because next offseason changes will have to be made. I still maintain maybe JR steps back, someone takes over being the Chairman and they can make the hard decisions if he won't. The partners can't be happy their profit margin is taking a hit.

QUOTE (FlaSoxxJim @ Sep 12, 2011 -> 10:15 PM) That was depressing. I left when it was 14-2. I missed Morel's homers. I'd say 80 percent of the fans in the stands after the 6th inning were Tiger fans.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Sep 12, 2011 -> 10:11 PM) Morel again to center ! Another 2 HR game ! Huge homers. Sign him to a Longoria deal before its too late. I do hope this does translate into something next season. Last year's September longballs didn't. Maybe he just needed a full season, or maybe guys don't care if he hits it 400 feet when they are up by 11.

Ozzie's learning on the job right now. If he goes to the Marlins next year, he will be on the other side of these scores. I don't know what people are thinking wanting him to leave. I guess they like 100 loss seasons.

QUOTE (Swingandalongonetoleft @ Sep 12, 2011 -> 08:58 PM) If the story about Kenny blowing up at him are true, I can't imagine him wanting to come back to the Sox (provided Kenny remains GM). I assume that is what he means by using the early part of the offseason to decide- to see if Williams remains. I've left a job where I couldn't stand the environment only to take the same position for less money at a different company. I was much happier at the new place, and I'd do it again 100% of the time in a heartbeat. Walker is done with baseball if he leaves the Sox, he's stated that numerous times. I'd be shocked he would want to come back.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 12, 2011 -> 07:31 PM) 1.) You guys really think things won't change in baseball and Philly and Atlanta are just gonna dominate year after year? If so then I'm mistaken. Florida isn't exactly Chicago Cub-like. 2.) You will be surprised at my reaction. I told everybody earlier I didn't care if he got fired. I think Ozzie even expected to get the boot in mid May. He is not dumb; by baseball standards he deserved to get booted at that time. A high payroll, supposed contender, was what, nine or 10 under .500? Or seven under or something? I just happen to believe he's going to be better than whomever we hire to replace him. And I think he's SO young it's a shame he learned on the job here while winning one WS (which the Sox NEVER do) and he's only going to get better. It's a shame the Sox "trained" him for his next gig. I love Ozzie but I'm not going to freak at all when the boot comes. Greg, one question, if bringing in Ozzie will make everything wrong with the Marlins right, how come the White Sox aren't great?

I just have a feeling everyone will be back except I think Walker will walk, or it will be a lot bigger than anyone is thinking, like JR selling or stepping back from his role and KW and OG both being bounced. I don't think it will just be Ozzie or KW leaving.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 12, 2011 -> 01:49 PM) No one knows how it will turn out, but the CBA is up this offseason, and dealing with this issue in some way is at the top of Selig's list along with HGH testing. I've never understood the players association's objection. Theoretically, slotting would free up more money for players who are in the union. Also, it would limit teams like Boston and the Yankees from lining up great prospects which should open up jobs on their teams, and they pay higher wages. Trading picks should also be allowed.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Sep 12, 2011 -> 04:27 PM) But you add Ozzie to that equation, and Florida would easily have two championships locked up at the minimum. Absolutely. That's all Ozzie does is collect rings. Can you imagine what he'll do without KW screwing him up?

I don't think technically you can trade a manager for a player. Obviously there are ways around it. If I'm the Marlins, I don't know why I would give compensation to talk to or bring Ozzie in. I'd make the White Sox make a decision. If they don't want him, they have to let him go. If they want him, do they really want him for only one season? I'd call the bluff and see what's up. I certainly would not give up a guy of Morrison's ilk if it came to it. Where else is Ozzie going to go? All the other teams that will be looking for a manager are awful and should be for years. His antics will get stale quickly.