Dick Allen

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 21, 2008 -> 11:22 AM) I think what is more laughable is your false interpretations of others statements and then ridiculing the argument you made up as laughable. What did I falsely interpret? I copy and pasted his post from Oct. 2.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 21, 2008 -> 10:20 AM) No argument here. No response to my last post? Agreed. How many young starting pitchers has KW acquired who have had an immediate successful impact on the White Sox major league team? Maybe you backed off of your Richard criticism but saying you deserve slack because he was a White Sox draftee and Marquez was not, making it a totally different situation is beyond laughable. I still haven't called Marquez garbage. The biggest slam I've given him is he's more like Lance Broadway than any of the other names mentioned. Of course, that may be considered worse than calling him garbage.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Dec 21, 2008 -> 09:57 AM) To be fair to Richard, we really dont have enough of a sample size on him to dismiss. I would say the same to those who solely focus on his postseason success This was actually jordan4life's post on Oct. 2. I posted it to show just how hypocritical he is slamming people who don't think Marquez will be much help in 2009 for "not giving him a chance."

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 21, 2008 -> 01:28 AM) So I take it you wanted no part of guys like Contreras, Floyd, Marte and Thornton when they were first brought in? Since you love putting so much stock in raw numbers and raw numbers alone. The selective memory around here by some baffles me. And it's the same predictable people every time. Marquez could very well suck ass. Who knows. You haven't seen him. I haven't seen him. Even if we did, it still wouldn't mean s***. We all know how Kenny operates. He, Rick Hahn and their people don't obsess over raw numbers. They scout overall talent/stuff/makeup/I.Q./ect. Is it a perfect formula? Of course not. But he's had more than enough success with these kinds of acquisitions that the guy should at least be given a chance. Not the typical "Well, his minor league numbers last year sucked. So that means he must suck" drivel we go through EVERY year. As a matter of fact, I've been one Jose Contreras' biggest backers on this site. I was one of the few that didn't want him gone even in 2005. I also am a Marte fan, and mentioned Matt Thornton as a potential pick up 3 months before he became a White Sox. I admittedly wasn't a fan of Gavin Floyd and still am not sold. The numbers suggest some things. Marquez has always given up a good amount of hits. He doesn't strike very many out. To suggest he will do things he's never done before during his minor league career on the major league level is crazy. I'm sorry I bring reality into the equation. You're basing everything on a conference call. Remember, KW also said Gio Gonzalez was one of the top 2 left handed pitching prospects in baseball along with Danks. People on this board, since the White Sox dumped him say he sucks. If Minnesota traded a .219 hitter who strikes out all the time and was owed $24 million for 3 players including Marquez and said Marquez would be the 4th starter, your opinion about his ability would be no higher than mine, and maybe lower. Its not up to me to "give him a chance." The White Sox will do that. I hope he does well, I just don't see how anyone can expect itinnings? BTW, you seem to be hypocritical. Why don't you give Clayton Richard a chance? After all he has a lower ERA, WHIP and walk rate and a higher k rate than Marquez in the minor leagues. Here's a quote from you: Selective memory? Richard doesn't suck? An era over 6? A WHIP of 1.55? BAA of over .300? He's garbage. A typical White Sox farmhand. And we've got people saying he should've started game 1 of a playoff series because he pitched a couple of nice innings? Here's scenerio's response to your post: Hey, if the 'typical WhiteSox farmhand' dominated at AA and AAA and got selected for the Olympic Team and the Futures Game, we'd all be very happy. Why is it that people think when a rookie player comes up that they either have to dominate everyone right away or they suck? You seem to be the one with the selective memory. Garbage. Typical White Sox farmhand. So its not the "his minor league numbers suck, so he must suck" you live by. You're opposed to that. But, White Sox farmhand and garbage go together.

KW lucked out. OC needs to fire his agent. From Olney: All but two of the free agents who were offered arbitration turned it down in the hopes of landing multiyear deals elsewhere. But increasingly, it appears that the Jason Variteks and Orlando Cabreras are going to have a difficult time landing deals that match what they might have made in arbitration. "With everything that's going on, and the way the prices are dropping, there's no way I'd give Orlando Cabrera a two-year deal for big money -- not when I have to give up a draft pick," a club official said. "Not a chance."

From Gammons: It has been suggested that the best way to decipher the Red Sox-Mark Teixeira negotiations is to pull out your old turntable, put on "Revolution 9" from the Beatles' "White Album" and play it backward. Then you will know what's been offered and what's been requested. We don't know whether the Angels, were they to lose Teixeira, would turn to Manny Ramirez. We don't know whether Randy Levine, Hank Steinbrenner and the Yankees could win out and buy Ramirez. We don't know whether the Red Sox will decide not to pony up and sign Teixeira or whether there really might be a three-way deal among the White Sox, Angels and Reds that would put Jermaine Dye in Cincinnati, Joey Votto in Anaheim and Chone Figgins in Chicago. JD for Figgins? I don't like it.

I'm thrilled the White Sox didn't sign this stiff.

QUOTE (scenario @ Dec 20, 2008 -> 02:12 PM) Ripped you? By suggesting that you cherry-picked one year of bad numbers to support your prediction that he would suck in the future, eh?? That's not called ripping... that's called exposing flaws in logic. If Danks was bad in the minors as you suggest, and he wasn't very good his rookie year, and Gavin Floyd has really only had 1 good year, wouldn't it be cherry picking under your definition to think they are now on their way to being anchors of the rotation for years? The biggest jump a pitcher makes isn't from A to AA or AA to AAA or A to AAA, its from wherever to the big leagues. This guy hasn't proven he can get AAA hitters out yet. I'd venture to guess just about everyone predicting his success in the major leagues in 2009 has never seen him pitch. They base everything on KW's conference call. Exactly what would you expect KW to say about someone he just traded for, especially if he's going to be negotiating for starting pitchers? Just remember what KW said when he got Sisco, Aardsma, Masset... Joe Borchard was going to be an impact player as was Willie Harris. He's not going to trade Swisher and say the pitchers he got back are mediocre at best prospects. Nunez is now with his 4th organization. Marquez was sliding on the Yankees prospect list. Flawed logic is suggesting a guy was decent at AA and the lower levels but struggled at AAA but the struggling doesn't matter. Its cherry picking. He'll be a solid 4th or 5th starter for a contending team on the major league level immediately.

This guy is closer to Lance Broadway than John Danks. I wouldn't be surprised if Broadway is better.

QUOTE (scenario @ Dec 20, 2008 -> 10:01 AM) Danks had around a 5.00 ERA in AA; and a 4.33 ERA in AAA. Do you find it hard to believe that he is performing better than that in the AL? And Jeff Marquez had a 3.65 or lower ERA in 4 of his 5 minor league seasons. I'm not suggesting that Marquez is going to step up and pitch at that level, but why cherry pick his ONE sub-par year to try and suggest that he's not any good. Danks' ERA his rookie year was 5.50. Marquez is nowhere near Danks in ability. You'll be lucky to get that out of him in 2009. If you're going to rip what I have to post, go out on a limb and say Marquez will be just like Danks. I just find it more telling what a guy did in 2008 in AAA rather than what he did in 2007 in AA in projecting what he will do in 2009 if he's even at a higher level. Its just me. Besides, they are two very different styles. I suggest he's not any good because he's 1 of 3 guys traded for what I mentioned before, a strikeout machine who hit .219 and is owed $24 million. You usually don't pick up 3 stars for that.

QUOTE (beck72 @ Dec 20, 2008 -> 09:17 AM) 2008 was the only year he struggled. He had previus years of 3.60 ERA's in AA and high A in 2007 and 2006. Without the injury, he was on course to repeat those numbers in AAA in 08. The fact the sox scouts have been after him for 2 years, and dealing Javy without seemingly a back up plan, leaving the sox without a #4, suggests the sox think he has a solid chance to replace Javy's numbers in 2009. Without the injury? How was he "on course" to repeat those numbers at a higher level? I don't see it. Keep in mind, White Sox scouts are not always correct. To get Danks, they had to give up their best pitching prospect. To get Quentin, they had to give up a pretty good prospect. Those trades worked out great. To get Marquez and a couple of other guys, they had to give up a strikeout machine who is owed $24 million and hit .219. I think it was a great trade. If the Sox get anything from any one of the three, its gravy. I don't understand overlooking AAA stats and relying on AA stats to give you an idea of what a player is going to do at the major league level immediately. Jerry Owens hit .331 in AA in 2005. What has that translated to? The White Sox have had several pitchers do well at AA and that hasn't meant squat. If you look at the guys these particular scouts have reccommended which I have no idea who they are, Danks probably stands out, but I'm sure there are quite a few guys they have liked that haven't amounted to anything. Marquez was sliding on the Yankees prospects chart. He wouldn't have been a top 10 for 2009. His strikeout rate, and I know its not the end all, was brutally low, and should be expected to be lower at a higher level. There just aren't many pitchers in MLB history that have been very successful who have fanned one every 3 innings. He has always given up a lot of hits, and for a guy who supposedly has a great sinker, the ball tends to leave the yard a lot when he's on the mound. If he is in the rotation, the White Sox will not contend.

I'm thinking his 6-7 record in AAA with a 4.69 ERA with a 1.45 WHIP with 2.7 BB/9 innings and 3.7 k/9 innings with 1.3 HR/9 innings all at the AAA level suggest something totally different than what you predict. You think he will do better in the AL than in AAA. I find that hard to believe. He's never pitched more than 155 innings on the minor league level and has pitched over 102 innings twice. I think he may wind up in Masset's old role if he isn't in Charlotte. Maybe someday a 5th starter. He's not nearly the elite prospect Danks was when he was acquired.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 19, 2008 -> 10:54 AM) Jon Garland SUCKED last year. He wasn't just bad. He was terrible. And he's pretty much regressed every season since his career 2005. But he's "proven" because he's been in the league a number of years? I guess scrubs like Jason Marquis are proven because they've been in the league 6-7 years. Some of you guys are going to have to get over this chronic fear of giving young guys a shot. You don't throw money at garbage just because "Well, at least he's been around a while. And he can eat some innings. Anything is better than giving a scrub like Marquez, a guy I've never seen before, a shot." Garland did suck last year. He had a 1.50 WHIP. You're right, give Marquez and his 1.45 WHIP in AAA a shot. He HAS to be better. BTW, as great of prospect as KW calls Marquez, and I see your drinking the Kool-Aid, his minor league WHIP is higher than Garland's career WHIP in the major leagues. I don't really think Marquez is a guy you can count on.

Tex is a nice player, no doubt about it, but his contract if all the reports are true, is crazy. His numbers are nice, but is he really worth more than twice as much per season as Paul Konerko was at the same stage of his career, with a contract twice the length? I can see giving money like that to an ARod, or a Jeter. Those guys have an aura about them. Their value goes far beyond their stats. I just don't see it with Tex. As good as he is, I've never been extra excited about seeing a game because he was playing.

Why was Javy Vazquez's $11.5 million a year to be a 4/5 starter, "reasonable", and paying Garland to do the same thing, except win a couple more games and strikeout a bunch less, insane? I'm not a big fan of Garland, but I'd rather have him than Javy. And you can probably pay him less money.

I read something pretty interesting today, where some teams just don't know how the weakened economy will affect them, and teams with big-time players who are well-paid may have to give these players up for pennies on the dollar during the season. It would mean a couple things for the White Sox. First, if they plan on trading a guy like JD and expect to get anything for him, they probably need to do it before the season starts. Also, the good news, after 2009, they really don't have very mucthey should be able to acquire.h in guaranteed money on their books. They may be in a position to acquire one or two or a few of these players.

Why do I think the White Sox will sign Mark Mulder to a no risk contract? Why do I also think if they do, there will be countless posts how Cooper will have him pitching like he did in his prime?

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Dec 18, 2008 -> 09:57 AM) Hmmm; Its weird in a market where Kyle Farnsworth can get get $4.6 million a year for 2 years, Cabrera may wind up with far less of a guarantee. For all his faults, the guy still is a pretty good player.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 16, 2008 -> 01:43 PM) http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-1...0,2965427.story Even the Cubs have a lot of concerns about advertising revenue going forward...so you know it has to be a concern to almost every MLB franchise, with the probably exception of the Yankees, Mets and Red Sox. Even the Dodgers are getting a little "cost conscious" (letting Furcal go, and it's natural with those contracts for A. Jones, Pierre, Schmidt, etc.) It will also be interesting to see if it's the Angels or Red Sox winning the bidding for TEX. The Yankees are going crazy though...Kei Igawa's deal was $46 million if you include the outrageous "posting" fee. I guess shedding Abreu, Giambi, Mussina and possibly Pettitte, they feel they can afford to take on that extra payroll. Last I checked none of these teams have lopped off as much payroll as the White Sox and say they are right up against their budget limit if not over, (not that I'm totally buying it). None also don't have the money coming off the books like the White Sox do the next year or 2, although the Yankees did have $85 million come off this year. KW liked to use Viciedo's signing bonus as Swisher's money so he will be $4 million cheaper in 2010. Dye, Contreras, Thome and Dotel will be off the books, with Konerko gone the following year. The other teams you have mentioned would have a much harder time getting to a Marlins-like payroll if it were necessary than the White Sox. Theorically, the White Sox could have a sub $50 million payroll in 2010.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 15, 2008 -> 11:28 AM) When you go 0-6 with an ERA close to 8 there's lots of things you can find that don't look good. Mechanics are easily correctable. As long as his stuff is still there he's a legitimate prospect. Mechanics are not easily correctable. If they were, every pitcher would have flawless mechanics.

QUOTE (sayitaintso @ Dec 13, 2008 -> 02:29 PM) If miller does get the back up job, i am going to pull out my hair trying to watch him get a hit. Since the beginning of the 2004 season, Corky is sporting an .092 average on the big league level, including being 1 for 55 between 2004-2006. It he was the only back up, AJP would wind up playing a lot of games when he was supposed to have the day off.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 13, 2008 -> 02:35 PM) Supposedly Fields had a bad leg or maybe even knee problem IIRC. I understand he was hurt, but why if he was a banged up as KW said, did they call him up? Why not get him fixed right away?

QUOTE (ChiSox420* @ Dec 13, 2008 -> 02:18 PM) I agree, with possible upcoming contract neg with Danks, Floyd, TCQ, Lexi, Beckham(Some sort of Longoria deal)... KW may just be making sure the economy can be a factor in all of these He has Dye $11.5 million, Thome $13 million and Contreras $10 million coming off the current books after 2009. Konerko's $12 million comes off after 2010. Crying poor is poor. There's plenty of room for the others. Danks and Floyd will cost a few more dollars in the next couple years, ans will Quentin. Ramirez is locked up cheaply for 3 more seasons, and Beckham is years away from arbitration. Maybe their suite sales are taking a huge hit.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Dec 13, 2008 -> 02:10 PM) So then what do you propose? Garcia? Colon? Lieber? Randy Wolf for 3 years? Capuano? Pedro? With a budget that limited it is hard to get a good SP that you can feel confident in. Of our in-house candidates, Richard couldn't get past the third time through the opposing lineup which leads me to believe he's best off in relief. Poreda still doesn't have the secondary stuff to start, and would you actually want to risk "rushing" him and ruining his confidence and setting his development back? Then there's Marquez, who the Sox seem high on, yet is coming off a horrid year and needs much work. He couldn't get the job done in Triple A and IMO he needs to show that he can before he can be a legitimate candidate. And speaking of not getting in done in Triple A, there's also Broadway who flat out sucks. Then there's Egbert, and he's IMO the second best option of the group behind Richard because he's ready and it he fails, he's not a guy we're going to really worry about screwing up with. Daniel Cabrera at least has MLB experience and has the type of stuff that, even if he fails as a starter, could lead to success out of the bullpen. Players who get non-tendered aren't All-Stars obviously, but since we're already over budget, aside from laying out trade scenarios of which high-quality SP prospects we may be able to acquire for our veterans or prospects, this is what we have to work with. I wouldn't give Wolf 3 years, but the others, except for maybe Pedro, could be had just as cheaply as Cabrera and give you a better chance to win. Cabrera in the bullpen won't work. The guy can't throw strikes. See MacDougal, Mike. See Sisco, Andy. Cabrera also had back and elbow problems last season. He's a 60 day DL stint waiting to happen.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 13, 2008 -> 02:00 PM) That would be a waste of 10 million dollars. Daniel Cabrera is terrible, and he's a huge injury risk! I also question Cabrera's "stuff." It seems to be fading. For a guy who supposedly is pretty unhittable, he sure does give up a lot of hits to go along with the ton of walks and HBP he allows. His K rate has been in freefall as well. He walks and hits more guys than he fans now. I think if someone got him to change his ways 3 years ago, he may have amounted to someone useful, but its past the point of no return. I know this stat means zero, but it is funny. He has 14 ABs in the major leagues. He struck out every time.