Dick Allen

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 01:00 PM) Do you have a link? I am one of the few who would really like to see some Coco on this team, and the idea of getting Bowden makes me a little excited too... More info please! There's a thread on WSI. Some guy in Boston radio claims its in place just waiting on the Santana situation to evolve.

QUOTE(BaseballNick @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 12:02 PM) What's there to collect? You can't just keep a player solely based on pride if he can be your biggest bargaining chip on the trade market. This team has holes; I think we can all agree on that much. Kenny can tweak the roster to make this team a competitor for maybe another year, but that's only if a lot of things fall into place. I think it makes more sense to deal Mark if he can yield the White Sox two or three good, young players. Mark is a good pitcher, he's a hero on the South Side, and there's no player on the roster that I like more than him...but he's not a world beater. Baseball is a business. As we saw this past month or so, FAs aren't out to do us any favors. The free agent route is a pretty risky, not to mention, expensive way to address your team's needs, and it burnt us this year. Trading Mark can help "fix" years of poor drafts and give us the depth we're in pretty desperate need of at the moment. Signing a player below market value because he's willing to take a discount because he likes being in your organization and then trading him and putting him in the awkward position of either waiving his no trade or using it, is really not condusive to having players agree to play for a hometown discount ever again, even if they do get a little extra money if they are dealt. I would bet just about anything Buerhle is not being discussed.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 12:56 PM) What's the rumored deal? Supposedly 3 Sox minor leaguers with Shelby being one of them.

QUOTE(EvilJester99 @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 12:51 PM) I would be interested in this deal only because of the supposed prospect that the Sox are said to be getting Bowden... Scouting Report: Bowden is a big righty strikeout starter with ace potential. He is an advanced pitcher for his age, but still has a ways to go to reach his potential. He has an arsenal of four pitches that have the potential to be big-league caliber: a low-90s four-seam fastball which tops out around 95, a 12-6 hard breaking curve, a tight slider, and a developing circle changeup with plus potential. His main pitch, the four-seamer, has a late, heavy sinking movement. Also, Bowden has a two-seamer that is a few mph off of his four-seamer with a bit more movement. His changeup sits in the low 80s, about 10 mph off of his fastball - has room for improvement. His slider sits around 81 mph and curveball in the mid 70s, but he doesn't utilize it all that often. Secondary stuff isn't dominant at this point, and he relies a little too much on his fastball. Overall, Bowden has a very good command of the zone, but could stand to miss a few more bats. One aspect that should come with more experience is improved pitchability against advanced hitters. Delivery is somewhat unconventional, almost 3/4 style, with a leaning motion while dropping his head a bit - but he's able to maintain it throughout his outings. Bowden is said to be a workaholic and just loves to pitch - another player who just lives and dies for baseball. Very athletic. Which probably means Gio or DSL is involved. I'm one of the few who likes Crisp and thinks he will put up a better OBP than Torii Hunter and play just as well defensively.

KW would be committing "hometown discount" suicide if he trades Buerhle before he even starts collecting on his extension.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 09:41 AM) Rumors are he won't even be healthy until 2050. I think its more fact than rumor.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 09:25 AM) Signing Prior to a one year deal makes no sense for us. I can't see why he'd want to pitch here anyways, as he'll likely choose a big ballpark when he can perform better and then get a bigger contract next season. I agree that he would have to be crazy to think pitching at USCF is going to help him maximize his dollars in 2009.

FWIW, Richar is having a terrible winter league.

QUOTE(DonnyDevito @ Dec 17, 2007 -> 05:57 PM) Heck, Floyd's last 10 appearances were superb IMO. 45.2 innings pitched, 18 earned runs. I'll take that all day long from Mr. Floyd. What is that, a 2.5 ERA...she it that's what I'm talking about. And the best thing of all is Gavin Floyd is another Tigers killer!!! In Gavin's last 21 innings pitched against Detroit, he only gave up 2 runs. earned or otherwise. Hopefully the Tigers will be without Rodriguez, Sheffield and Ordonez not to mention Renteria and Cabrera when they see him next time. Timo Perez was hitting 3rd in Leyland's line-up against him one game and 5th the other. In his 3 good games against the Tigers the Tigers had Casey, Rayburn and Timo batting 3rd. The time they had a full line-up he was killed.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Dec 17, 2007 -> 01:58 AM) Morons don't graduate from Stanford. Neither did Kenny.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Dec 17, 2007 -> 12:02 PM) I would hope not -- in my experience there's very little correlation if any at all between college attendance and intelligence. And for anyone saying that Williams not graduating is a sign of stupidity, go tell that to Bill Gates. I didn't say it was a sign of stupidity, I said you can hardly call him a "Stanford guy" like has been described to verify his intelligence, and you cannot compare his academic "resume" with guys like Epstein or his ilk, because it is not there. What I have referred to as "stupidity" is saying his pitching staff as is, will not be a problem, as well as some of the other comments that he has made. Using the other side of the coin, just because he throws out a few big words now and then, that doesn't mean he is a genius either.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 17, 2007 -> 09:26 AM) Take a quick look around mlb- check out the academic resumes of all the new, young GM's- and then tell me that top of the line educations are not extremely valuable in the current industry landscape. Check where Shapiro, Epstein, and many of the other younger GM's attended college. The days of hiring front office execs strictly because they are "baseball people" is over. KW went to college 2 years.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 16, 2007 -> 12:06 PM) Damn, you piss me off some days. Why must you have this habit of changing everything around so that it appears to suit your argument? And additionally, try criticizing the guy from a standpoint which shows a little more realism. Honestly. The way you expect him to comment publicly only happens in Dick Allen Fantasy World. I would expect the comment about Cabrera going to Detroit either not be said, or if it were a joke, made sure its interpreted like that. I also wouldn't popping off on how 3/4 of his offseason makeover is complete, just missing out on a CF. Obviously there will still be some moves made unless he's changed his name to Noah and needs 2 of everything, but I think its only in KW and iamshack's fantasy world that adding a CF to the current roster and nothing else is enough to make the team a contender. If Torii Hunter is the difference between the White Sox being a serious title contender and where they are at right now, he would have been a bargain at 5/$90 million. They would have made more than enough to cover that investment.

QUOTE(DonnyDevito @ Dec 16, 2007 -> 12:39 AM) I'm one of those people who never got the point of signing Garland to $12 million a year or whatever absurd amount that he was making. If it wasn't for his prototypcial age or size (6 foot 6), i don't see why people would be high on him. he didn't have plus anything IMO except control yet that was fleeting. He was a big benefitor to Chicago's potent offense in the years he won 18 games. his ERA, WHIP, and strikeout totals have always been barely mediocre. The guy did nothing special but last many innings and if you take away all of those games against inept AL Central teams (at the time) i don't think he would of had as many Wins as he did. The Garland trade is something I was glad to see because pitchers like Danks actually have plus pitches. Garland 208 innings pitched .270 BAA 19 HR Danks 139 innings pitched .289 BAA 28 HR Floyd 70 innings pitched .299 BAA 17 HR I understand you think Garland is overpaid at $12 million. I agree with you. But removing him from the rotation and counting on the other 2 mentioned to pick up the slack isn't a move a team "going for it" in 2008 makes. While it makes sense for the Sox to deal Garland, a 33 year old SS who supposedly isn't interested in signing a contract extension, doesn't seem to me to be the play. I don't like Floyd, I think Danks will eventually be decent, and it really wouldn't bother me if they were in the rotation and even wouldn't bother me if Jerry Owens played everyday if the White Sox would just admit they are short and at least attempted a partial rebuild. But since the GM thinks they still are the team to beat, I think putting these guys in these positions isn't going to win you many games.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 15, 2007 -> 03:31 PM) Would you say that having Danks shut down in the 2nd half like last year taxed the bullpen? Because the White Sox's bullpen was one of the least used in baseball. And it has been every one of the last 4 years. No team's starters have thrown more innings than ours the last 4 years, no team's bullpen has thrown fewer innings than ours, entirely because of the way Ozzie uses his pitchers and the presence of this Buehrle dude. Whether the starters are great or suck, Ozzie gives his starters the innings and the remote chance to win games until they totally explode. Especially if we stick a 12 man bullpen out there, there is no reason why anyone would look at the White Sox's stats for the last few years and expect that the bullpen is going to be really taxed. None at all. Garland is a 200 inning guy. His replacements haven't shown they can pitch anywhere near that yet. If the bullpen has to pitch an extra 50 or 60 innings they will suck even worse. The bullpen was great in 2005. The big 4 starters pitched a collective 890 innings or so. One of the reasons the bullpen was so effective is because of that.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Dec 15, 2007 -> 01:17 PM) He is a decent pitcher - an innings eater. He is a 3 or 4. Danks should definitely be able to fill his shoes. The White Sox received a huge upgrade at shortstop by trading away an overpaid pitcher. That is not a big hit to the rotation and I have no idea what the Angels needed him for. Cabrera is a .321 OBP guy for his career. If he hits like last season, he's a huge upgrade, if he doesn't, while he may be an upgrade, its really not that big. How can you say Danks should definitely be able to eat Garland's innings? He was so awful the second half, they sat him down. Its really going to tax the bullpen if KW keeps the rotation as its currently configured.

If Eckstein would have accepted the contract he signed back when the free agent period began, Uribe would have been let go, and Garland would still probably be here or Eckstein would be a second baseman.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 05:03 PM) We dont know that. Neither one of them came forward in the report to help out, and neither one accepted supplies from 2 major dealers. The good part is that Thome was in Cle while juicing was going on, so probably he didnt do it. Kong was on the dodgers where there was obviously SOME juicing taking place, but he didnt really turn into a good player until he was on the SOX. I agree. Just because you're not outed in the report doesn't mean you're clean. If it did McGwire and Sosa

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 02:26 PM) Wow. Just took a moment to look at Roger Clemens's 1998 stats, which is the year that the Mitchell Report alleges he started using. The Splits are freaking remarkable. People still b**** about the White Sox not signing him in 1997. His last 4 seasons in Boston he was 40-39. That guy was a good pitcher but not a HOFer at that point. He's a fake.

Since Sammy Sosa isn't on the list does this mean he's clean. Or does that apply only to those who played for the White Sox when they won it all?

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 12:52 PM) I think the Canseco one was clearly a mistake. Schoenweis, I don't know. But we really should make sure to insert a question about that at Soxfest. An answer to that question is something we should get...what did they know about that. Personally I think use was so widespread, every team looked the other way. It would be a great question at Soxfest. I doubt you would get a good answer .

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 12:40 PM) Well, certain clubs like the Cubs and Cardinals are more difficult to discuss, because they are owned by multi-billion dollar corporations. So insert whomever takes on the role of the owner in those cases. My guess is it would be Team President. Do you believe Andy McPhail had no idea Sammy Sosa was doing roids when he suddenly began hitting 60+ home runs in successive seasons? Come on... What do you think was going on with the White Sox when they signed Canseco? Clearly they has to know what he was on. Schoenweiss had stuff delivered to the clubhouse too. Are JR and KW just as guilty as everyone else?

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 10:43 AM) So now you are claiming he is not intelligent at all? Do you not believe he is articulate? Do you honestly believe JR hired him, as opposed to all the other former WS players, because he did not find him intelligent? I'm not going to go so far as to claim he is some sort of "genius," but he certainly appears to be far more intelligent than the average "jock" who attends a university on an athletic scholarship. Additionally, he's spent 26 seasons in the baseball industry. How many have all of us spent? I doubt the entire collection of posters on this forum combined have spent 26 seasons in the baseball industry. Again, I am not trying to stifle criticism or commentary. But to claim he is "not smart" is absolutely inaccurate. Just don't refer to him as "the Stanford guy" as evidence of immense intelligence. Maybe if he received a degree you may have a point.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 10:27 AM) Stanford is not UNLV. Even the athletes that go there are going to be non-stupid. Its an elite school, and even a ballplayer going there will have to be above average academically. Just about every division 1 program in basketball and football has more than their fare share of not to bright guys no matter what the academic reputation of the institution.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 08:38 AM) Here we go again.... I really don't mind the second guessing and the criticism, but the "Kenny is stupid" nonsense is really ridiculous. Yeah, the Stanford guy that played the game, was director of the farm system, and now GM of several years is just plain "stupid." But we the message board posters, who have no clue what actually goes on other than what we read in the media are the "intelligent" ones. How absolutely ignorant. As for Fields, Kenny will not trade him unless he gets a very significant piece in return. While he's shown he will trade anyone for what he feels is the right piece, he isn't going to deal away Fields, whom he views as a future all-star, for a marginal upgrade in Crisp. Sure, Fields was available for MCab. He would be available for a frontline pitcher. But he's not going to be available for Coco Crisp. We all know how badly Kenny wanted Scott Linebrink over the past two seasons. The Padres demanded Fields in return. The deal wasn't made. So I think it's clear it's not going to be made for Crisp. Please don't use Kenny going to Stanford as evidence he is smart. He went to play sports. He didn't graduate and I think was only there for a year or so.