Dick Allen

QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Nov 30, 2016 -> 08:58 AM) Lol but you don't mention that he picked Jared Mitchell over Mike freaking Trout and passes on Corey Seager for Courtney Hawkins? Sure Sale is a good move. Sure. But maybe his only good draft choice in his entire time as GM. He's had more garbage moves that have hurt us long-term than good ones that allowed us to be consistent contenders - contrary to KW and JR's dreams about that. Hahn clearly has a passive personality if you've ever seen him take a media. KW has the more domineering personality. Besides, KW is his damn boss. Do you think Hahn just has been preaching "long-term, sustainable success" and doing a completely other thing because he wants to? No, because his bosses make him do so. He hasn't drafted well. But several geniuses passed on Trout and Seager and Sale.

QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Nov 30, 2016 -> 08:50 AM) Good post. While Carpe is starting to make some ridiculous threads, you can't deny KW being a cancer. It'sso hard to judge Hahn's moves with the influence of KW and JR above him. I doubt he has the absolute say in any moves he's made so far, for the most part. For all the s*** Hahn gets, he has signed all of our prominent players (Sale, Q, Eaton, Jones) to cheap, team-friendly extensions and drafted much, much better (at least with the top picks) under hia tenure. We got Anderson, Rodon, Fulmer, Collins. KW would have drafted some raw athletes (Hawkins, Mitchell, Walker) It also helps make you look like a genius when your draft pick is top 10. I noticed KW got no credit for drafting Sale. For a cancer and all time bad GM, it's quite the move. And I also don't understand how people can come to the conclusion that JR and KW are idiots and RH is a genius. It's back up QB syndrome. Hahn has been around with probably just as much influence for 15 or 16 years.

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Nov 30, 2016 -> 08:15 AM) It likely is, but that doesn't make for good "bash the FO" material. I can see both sides of the argument here. Using them for leverage is not a bad idea, but other GMs aren't stupid, they know the White Sox are unlikely to deal with the Cubs and vice versa, so it's not really that much leverage. At the same time, Hoyer is absolutely right that he'd have to pay a premium to get what he wants from the White Sox, because as much as the "maturity crowd" and "Chicago fans" here don't want to admit it, the Cubs succeeding is bad for the White Sox from a pure business perspective. I'll give them that the degree of bad depends on how well the White Sox are doing, but even if the two teams were the two best in baseball, having another successful team in your market limits your access to potential revenue streams. The other thing is the Cubs would want to base a deal around a guy like Soler. For some reason Baez is untouchable, and Schwarber, he of the 8 career hits vs. LHP, is destined for Cooperstown. Jed said they would have to pay a "tax", and implied the White Sox would have had to pay a "tax" with them. So I guess the Cubs are just as childish.

I am no fan of KW, but a WS title with a payroll that isn't over the top alone disqualifies him from being an all time bad GM. This thread really makes me doubt any inside info this poster has provided.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Nov 29, 2016 -> 03:24 PM) I have no idea if any of this is true or not. I will say though, that IF it is...it represents a significant and radical change in "philosophy" for JR. For decades the Sox have openly said they are not in competition with the Cubs. Remember "we're Chicago's American League team?" to cite one example. I've always strongly felt and said the Sox ARE in direct competition with the Cubs and by doing nothing for decades basically giving the city and home market to them they are partially responsible for their own irrelevance. Mark The Sox know the Cubs are rivals even if some people here do not. They tried like hell to sign Mark Grace, Greg Maddux when he got a little older, and Kerry Wood, and Rick Sutcliffe. . I remember a quote from Sutcliffe saying given his Cubs tenure, he just couldn't become a White Sox. A lot of that was to try to stick it to the Cubs. They were looking for good players, but being northside fan favorites was appealing.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Nov 29, 2016 -> 02:34 PM) Probably true. Conversely, if Sale went to the Cubs and it didn't result in another title, but the elite talent acquired by the Sox led them to a title, then the Cubs fans wouldn't be ok with that either. They would rip Theo & Co. in every way imaginable. It cuts both ways. Theo getting ripped by Cubs fans? Not in this lifetime.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Nov 29, 2016 -> 02:20 PM) Come on, man. He's worked in this town for a long time. He's also a White Sox fan. He's also not claiming to have any info other than speculating that the White Sox GM is a very smart man that most likely wouldn't say this. Wouldn't surprise me if Hahn is on board with this. In the season ticketholder event I was at, he admitted he is very cognizant of the Cubs. But of course they aren't going to announce this. It can be assumed, and maybe someone did tell Olney or one of Olney's sources. If the Cubs make a crazy offer, they would trade him there, I am certain of that. All things being equal, no way.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Nov 29, 2016 -> 02:21 PM) And it seems like some longtime, well-respected posters on this site would be fine with that which is insane. The Cubs have no reason to overpay for Chris Sale. The point is moot.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 29, 2016 -> 02:20 PM) He actually said he wouldn't trade him straight up. Edit: wouldn't trade Bregman straight up for Sale, let alone part of a package. That's what I meant. Typo.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Nov 29, 2016 -> 02:13 PM) Bernstein just said he'd be stunned if Rick Hahn thinks this way. He doesn't doubt that it came from someone in the organization though. Talk about cutting your GM's nuts off. Bernstein has no White Sox inside information. Just go back and read some of the things he claimed to have sources on. They were all BS, like the time they were going to get prospects for taking on bad contracts, and then mentioned a salary cap. He didn't realize there is no salary cap in baseball.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Nov 29, 2016 -> 02:11 PM) Handing it to them? The Cubs don't even need Chris Sale. They won a World Series without him and will probably be favored to win another one. You guys couldn't stand seeing Sale win one there if 4 studs come back in return that were the start of the Sox resurgence? Some of these opinions are mind-numbingly insane. Their rotation is getting a bit long in the tooth. Acquiring Chris Sale for mostly prospects improves their chances. If Sale isn't as good as Lackey, the offers people make here make zero sense. BTW the guy doing the MLBTR chat said he would trade Bregman for Sale straight up.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 29, 2016 -> 02:06 PM) The point is they shouldn't come out and say it even if they intend on never trading him there. Why not use them as leverage? I5 doesn't really have anything to do with what the fans want. They didn't come out and say it. But it's out there. I doubt any team would be surprised. Probably a good bet the Sox wouldn't trade Sale within the divison either. That said, they woiuld trade him to the Cubs if the offer was ridiculous.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 29, 2016 -> 02:04 PM) its funny how Olney ranges from "talking out his ass" to "solid in his reporting" depending on the info lol It was actually on CSN last night. They actually asked David Haugh about it. He thought it was the right thing to do for the White Sox. His reasoning, if Sale helped the Cubs win, JR would be remembered for handing WS trophy(s) to them. That wouldn't be good.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Nov 29, 2016 -> 01:58 PM) This is a terrible opinion. The Sox shouldn't care that the Cubs won the World Series. They should care that somebody other than them did. Shack is right. If it's out there that you don't want to deal with the Cubs then you can't even use them as leverage against other teams. Nothing good can come from this information being made public somehow. Stop being afraid and act like a major league franchise. If Chris Sale led the Cubs to another title or 2, and the Sox didn't win one any time soon, do you really think Sox fans would be OK with that? They would be ripped in every way imaginable. Columnists who today think it would be dumb for the Sox to not consider trading with the Cubs, would absolutely forget they ever wrote that. Many, many fans would to. Helping the Cubs win doesn't help the White Sox at all.

I don't like Trump, but this Barron Trump possible autism stuff was way out of line. Leave the 10 year old kid out of it. It's like when Rush Limbaugh used to mock Chelsea Clinton's looks. Total BS. And Rosie O'Donnell, there is no defense. Whether he had it or not, it's their business, not Rosie's or any of ours.

Obviously it isn't nearly the same money, but I think the Korean market is going to adjust like the Cuban market will. A few guys have success, and suddenly everyone with decent numbers gets paid. Abreu made a lot of guys a lot of money who really sucked. The same thing is going to happen with the Korean league guys IMO. Thames was a AAAA player when he was here before. Now all of a sudden because of 3 or 4 years beating lesser competition he is an entirely different player? Maybe, but I would really doubt it. I wouldn't want to be tied to him for 3 years.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Nov 29, 2016 -> 09:19 AM) God f***ing damn. I wanted the Sox to sign him so badly. A 30 year old who strikes out a ton and doesn't walk at all? Why?

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 28, 2016 -> 10:54 PM) Just saying you said the CBA wouldn't affect a Sale trade and clearly it makes him worth as I said slightly less. No on said anything about it being a sticking point neither you in your original post or me in my response to it.Draft picks are valued . It might be more important when talking about Frazier. Melky and Robertson probably don't get qualifying offers and wouldn't require a draft pick for signing them. As a GM everything little thing should matter . The more you get from a trade the better. Moving the needle as you say may not matter to you but a smart GM values it. This would have been an issue with every player who has been traded in recent years who had a contract that ran past this agreement. Trades have been made. People think the Sox should have traded Sale by now, even at the deadline. This would have been an issue then too. Draft pick comp is not an issue right now in a Sale trade. Total reach.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 28, 2016 -> 10:19 PM) Isn't one of the issues the elimination of draft pick compensation for unrestricted free agents ? If the Sox trade Sale or anyone else that the acquiring team has for a full season the current CBA says that teams is entitled to a draft pick when the player turns down a qualifying offer and chooses unrestricted free agency. So wouldn't this affect the trade value of Sale , Quintana, Eaton and possibly Frazier if the acquiring team doesn't get a draft pick when those player elect unrestricted free agency after spending a season or more with the teams they are traded to. Basically doesn't it make those players worth slightly less if the team acquiring them doesn't have a draft pick to look forward to when they walk ? If that is a sticking point in a Sale deal, we have been wasting our time speculating about the Sox trading him. A draft pick in the 20s 3 years from now isn't going to move the needle.

QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 28, 2016 -> 04:04 PM) I wouldn't mind kicking tires on a player like Eovaldi if we are rebuilding. He is not good, but he has random good streaks and maybe could catch lightning in a bottle and be flipped. We will need to field a team of some players so, this is my suggestion. He won't be taking the field in 2017. Elbow surgery.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Nov 28, 2016 -> 03:51 PM) All these reports are pretty much bogus IMO. It's more than luxury tax though. International draft, 26th man and I am sure a couple of other things. PLayers and owners are making ridiculous amounts of money. They're just posturing. Yes, but why would any of that hold up a Sale trade? I can see holding off on a guy if there is a question about luxury tax, but he is making Bartolo Colon money. The other stuff, the GMs aren't negotiating, and why it would affect a Sale trade is beyond me. I just think the grand slam offer hasn't been made yet. I don't think the CBA status has anything to o with it.

Why would the CBA hold up a Sale trade? The only issue IMO is the luxury tax, and he doesn't make $30 million a year.

QUOTE (flavum @ Nov 28, 2016 -> 02:36 PM) They've won one postseason game 2006-2016. They already do suck. What's another another 2-3 years, if there's a better path to winning with players that can actually play together for years at a time, and not just rely on luck and other teams having bad years? I know it's a risk to rebuild, but what they've done over the last 7-8 years has been an absolute failure. It's time they try to acquire assets upon assets, and make their own luck. So you don't want them to be a playoff team until the Rodon clock is down to 2 years? That's pretty silly. If they trade all these guys for players who are good, why waste 3 years to maybe be good for 3 or 4 years?

QUOTE (Lillian @ Nov 27, 2016 -> 06:29 PM) So Chicago would be a "Sanctuary City", which violates the Second Amendment and my favorite team would be owned by Barak Obama. So, exactly why would I be a Sox fan? Oh, never mind, I wouldn't be. See ya.

QUOTE (Jimmy3Putt @ Nov 27, 2016 -> 06:07 PM) How can he possibly have enough money for majority shares of a MLB team? He has a ton of connections. While I am skeptical whether this is true, I have no doubt he could put a group together that could fund about anything. I think he wants part of an NBA team.