Dick Allen

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 17, 2016 -> 08:50 AM) You do realize that when you pitch 60 innings, getting lit up 4 times is like a starter getting lit up every 2nd or 3rd start right? That's really not good? He pitched in 62 games and had 4 bad ones. What you just wrote makes zero sense. Try again. He pitched in over 61 innings., In 4 outings he gave up 17 runs in in 2 2/3 innings. He gave up 7 runs in the other 59 1/3. Not quite getting lit up as a starter every 2nd or 3rd start.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 16, 2016 -> 09:16 PM) If we're rebuilding, I'd make sure to protect Engel, May, Guerrero, & Delmonico. I would do Engel, May, and Guerrero. Delmonico, if some team wants to keep him around all season, good for them. I don't think he is much of a game changer.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Nov 17, 2016 -> 08:08 AM) The offense was terrible so every game was a one run game thus the high leverage guys were used more consistently. Couple with the fact the injuries, there was not much to work with out there other than Jones and Robertson. This is true too. If they threw the other guys out there in "high leverage" situations, that would have been a problem too. A thin bullpen and a lot of close games means guys will pitch on multiple days. As for the starters, I remember when Ozzie used to be praised for leaving starters in longer.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Nov 17, 2016 -> 07:58 AM) Thing is, Robertson had an era below 2 when pitching on 0 days rest, and an era below 1 when pitching on 1.....Things started getting bad when he had over 3 days rest. He gave up 13 runs in 12 innings of work when he pitched on 4 or more days of rest. He gave up just 3 runs in 23.2 innings pitched with no rest. 4 runs in 33.2 if you add in the 1 run he allowed in 11 innings with 1 day of rest. These numbers lead me to believe that he IS a workhorse closer. I suppose you could argue that it was these innings that lead to his problems when pitching on heavy rest. Yes. He got lit up 4 times in 2016. The rest of the time, despite his command issues, his ERA was a little bit over 1.00. When he has his command, he makes good hitters look like fans from the stands grabbing a bat. Maybe his glute problem or knee issue contributed to it, or maybe just getting away for a few months and rebooting will do the job, but he really hasn't lost much. He never did rely on heavy gas.

QUOTE (Scoots @ Nov 17, 2016 -> 06:37 AM) http://www.southsidesox.com/2016/11/16/136...s-handbook-2017 Interesting 2016 stats in this article... Among the most notable in my opinion: Robin Ventura led the league by using relievers on consecutive days 128 times, and nobody in the American League was close. He also led the league in slow hooks for the fourth consecutive year and long outings for a second. Alex Avila’s walks were the least valuable in the league, resulting in only .231 runs per walk. *Jose Abreu hit 556 foul balls, second to only Brandon Belt (580) and well above the totals from his first two years (480 and 460). I saw this. Robin used his starters too much and his relievers too much.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Nov 16, 2016 -> 01:54 PM) Is this Birenbaum guy credible? I've never heard of him before. These scenerios are just his proposals, not a real offer.

The other thing that hopefully is changed soon, is a team like the White Sox is penalized a lot more for signing a QO free agent than a team like the Yankees. Forget the bigger financial burden because of less revenue, mediocre teams give up more valuable draft picks than good teams.

It's Jonas who is with the Score in Toronto opinion. Not real news. http://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1156100-3...-for-chris-sale

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 16, 2016 -> 12:35 PM) If they do what the Cubs way? Rebuild? $500 million over how many years? Lester $150 million Zobrist $56 million Heyward $184 million Lackey $32 million not to mention Edwin Jackson $52 million.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 16, 2016 -> 12:31 PM) Ok, so utilizing your logic, does the White Sox operation typically involve rebuilding? Are we currently looking at rebuilding? They have traded for prospects before. Eaton and Quentin were really good. Molina, Castro, Davidson, Avi....kind of scary.

QUOTE (WBWSF @ Nov 16, 2016 -> 12:22 PM) I find it interesting that the Braves who won 68 games in 2016 are trying to acquire Sale and the White Sox who won 78 games in 2016 are trying to trade Sale. The White Sox are a ways away from fielding a team that is consistently good, but if they hit all the right buttons in an offseason, they could make the playoffs. That rarely happens.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 16, 2016 -> 11:05 AM) Explain to me why those doors are closed to us? This isn't an all-or-nothing thing here. If the White Sox aren't devoting the vast majority of their revenues to the mlb payroll, why can't they invest more in international free agency? If the White Sox have a low mlb payroll, why can they not sign good players to supplement their roster? It is not a requirement that you spend SEVERAL HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS in order to make this work. That is pure bulls***. The f***ing Royals just won the World Series. The Royals have also had 8 top 8 draft picks since 2005, and 7 in the top 5. That's being really bad a long time.

QUOTE (brett05 @ Nov 16, 2016 -> 09:44 AM) How does only him knowing the finalists mean he is not seeking help? The people helping him don't know who the finalists are, if he is the only one who knows. Why is he playing a game? The country isn't a reality TV show. He isn't telling his people who the finalists are. They even tell you who the finalists are on the Academy Awards, but Donny , the guy who claimed the election is rigged, then won with the second most votes, is keeping everyone is suspense again. The guy is a joke. I doubt he lasts his term.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 16, 2016 -> 10:07 AM) Our problem isn't surplus value. We have tons of it now in Sale, Q, Eaton, and Jones. Our problem is actual production at multiple positions. This is what the primary goal of trade Chris Sale et, al is. Yes. The top 5 or 6 of the White Sox roster matches up pretty well with just about every team.

The cost to replace Sale and/or Q and/or Eaton and/or Abreu, is a lot more than they currently are being paid, so RH is going to have to be GM of the year to get packages for all that turns the team entirely around in 2 or 3 years after giving up it's best players. Many of the names mentioned will be really good players. Many of the names mentioned will be forgotten in a year or 2. They cannot miss. 2011 the Padres were ranked with the best farm system. Liriano who the White Sox just claimed on waivers was their top prospect. Rizzo was ranked 6th. BP had them ranked incorrectly, but the White Sox have to get it right, because there will be a package that gets it right, and it may not look as good currently as one that looks great now, but won't in 3 years. Unfortunately, when you are trading Chris Sale at this point, looking back and saying it made sense at the time won't cut it. You have to look back on it and say you made a really good deal.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 16, 2016 -> 09:14 AM) Remember when the other parts of that trade helped the Sox win the division in 2000? Caruso wasnt the only player in that trade that made the majors, Howry and Foulke had pretty good careers and both of them were key parts of the 2000 team. Look, i understand people are worried about a rebuild. It is risky and there are no guarantees. But insinuating that the Sox shouldnt go down that path because of a trade that happened almost 20 years ago is ridiculous. The crown jewel of that trade was supposed to be Barceló, but he got hurt. KW called him a p****. Said he had to pitch through some pain. Turned out he needed elbow and shoulder surgery. That turned out OK, especially since they were guys that were out of here anyway. Sale is a different story. Prospects can be great or they can get you excited and wind up being Avi Garcia and Matt Davidson. The Avi trade wasn't a killer since Peavy was going to go and they did get Montas who turned out to have value.

Trump is making his cabinet choices like the Apprentice. He tweeted he is the only one who knows who the finalists are. That is encouraging. The guy with zero experience isn't seeking help.

So Ben Carson said no to his appointment with DhHS because he thought he was not qualified. Didn't he run for president?

Ape in heels wasn't intended to be racist. Those that know her know she's not a racist. http://www.9news.com.au/world/2016/11/15/1...-sparks-outrage

QUOTE (raBBit @ Nov 15, 2016 -> 02:53 PM) Buddy Bell isn't involved in acquisitions and evals he's in charge of overseeing the development of players in the minor leagues. The people involved in this process are: 1.) KW/Hahn - negotiations, deal framework, risk diversification, money, etc. This has been mostly Hahn since even before he took over as GM. That doesn't mean he isn't acting under the direction of his boss though. Hopefully were past that. 2.) Jeremy Haber/Dan Fabian - Haber weighs in on evals and makes player recs. Fabian is the head of all analytics adding support or guidance where needed. 3.) Professional scouts - The guys who were scouting any player the Sox may potentially acquire back in July-September. They also scout the prospects in the AFL. 4.) Amateur scouts - They weigh in on guys who were recent draft picks. So for instance, the Southeastern amateur college scouts would give their notes on Benintendi and they would be vetted against the scouts in the Eastern League or more likely, the Carolina League who watched Benintendi this year. Plus you have a lot of scouts who are either higher in rank or assigned to cold or less fruitful areas who watch players like, say Cody Bellinger, in his high school showcases or National exposure games. 5.) Marco Paddy - If the Sox are trading with the Dodgers and Yadier Alvarez was in play, they'd call Marco Paddy who told me he specifically saw Alvarez when he was still in Cuba. 6.) Dan Stritmatter (sp?) - He handles video coordination and works hand-in-hand with Fabian. If they wanted to find tape of a lesser known guy who's rounding out a package this is where they turn. The Sox FO's has been inadequate in plenty of different ways over the years. Even so, as much as the lazy narratives around here would lead you to think it's just Kenny Williams, Rick Hahn and in your case, Buddy Bell, just sitting in an office bulls***ting up a package that's simply not the case. They have been working and preparing for a trade with at least the Red Sox and Dodgers for almost a half year. Given what I was told around the deadline that never came into fruition, they've probably been set and prepared to sell just didn't get the okay from management until this offseason. They are capable of making excellent trades. Eaton for Santiago was a steal.Everyone is going to miss. The good ones just don't do it as often. They can miss on the short term guys. But if they trade Sale, Q, or Eaton, that has to be looked back on 3 or 4 years from now fondly.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 15, 2016 -> 12:57 PM) So let me get this straight, if we blow these trades, we could have a "horrendous decade or two", but if we hold them we avoid this risk? So no chance these guys get injured, their performance declines, or they simply leave once their contracts expire? While rebuilding is no doubt risky, doing nothing or very little is far more risky. I don't get the allure of a half-ass rebuild, it's the lack of clear direction over the past few years that has got us in this terrible spot. We need to pick a direction and commit 100% one way or the other. I am using 2012 because it is 4 years down the line. If the Sox acquired the top 10 prospects in all of baseball that year for Sale, Q, Eaton, they are even worse than they are now. http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2012/ipad/

There are plenty of reasons to be scared. Prospects bust. Here is BPs list of the top farm systems after the 2012 draft. The Sox are last. There are a lot of 4 and 5 star guys you would say "the Sox traded xxx for that?" http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article....articleid=16208 I understand the necessity, but there is no reason to over do it. Trading for prospects is a risky thing. A lot of the guys who seem to be can't miss will wind up being no better than the crap the Sox already have. The Sox cannot cave. Blowing these trades, and taking whatever because "their value will never be higher" could lead to a horrendous decade or two. These trades have to be won.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 15, 2016 -> 10:54 AM) I love Eaton, but I don't think ANY team thinks he's a 6 win player going forward. The problem with deriving so much value from your arm is that people stop giving you the chance to throw them out. The problem with deriving so much value from rangey plays is that you don't always get the opportunity to make rangey plays. The defensive "production" is likely to regress, even if he plays exactly as well as he did this year. On top of that (and possibly partially because of that), players like Eaton tend to consistently command less on the trade/free agent market than everyone expects. I think most teams would love to have him, but I don't think he would return what most seem to be expecting. There's a good chance he's more valuable to the Sox on the field than he is as trade bait. Yes but he has been a top 10 WAR player for a year and a half, even when he was negative in CF. in 2015. He is signed so cheaply, and is controlled as long as guys who just completed their rookie seasons. If teams refuse to run on him and that hurts his WAR, that shows a problem with the WAR. Players not even attempting to take another base is a pretty valuable commodity to have in an OF.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 15, 2016 -> 08:01 AM) Well not sure I agree about the regressing part. Eaton is a speed guy, and while he may not steal a ton of bags, he provides a lot of value on the bases and his range in RF is a signicant driver of his value. It's very real possibility he starts declining in the next couple of years. Will he suddenly become a bad baseball player? Hell no, but assuming he's a 6 WAR player three or four years from is a pretty optimistic projection. Also, the idea of a successful rebuild in two to three years is only possible if you're dealing multiple impact pieces. Simply dealing Sale, Frazier, Melky, & Robertson isn't going to be enough. That doesn't mean we have to deal Eaton, but a couple guys like him, Quintana, Abreu, & Jones need to go to accelerate this thing. Tradimg all of their good players away for 20-25 prospects is would be Christmas for some when it happened. The reality is, they will still need more. So either you will have to trade some of those prospects for established players or sign free agents. A free agent with Eaton production 2 or 3 years from now would probably cost $200 million if not more.

QUOTE (PolishPrince34 @ Nov 15, 2016 -> 07:43 AM) Toronto, Giants, Mets, and St. Louis would probably have strong interest in Eaton. Every team would have a strong interest in Eaton. He is being held pretty short on this board. He has off the charts value. Fangraphs pegs his 2016 season worth a little more tha $48 million. It pegs his 3 years with the White Sox worth $100.7 million, and they have him signed for 5 more years for a total of $38 million with $1.5 million outs the last 2 years if something should go wrong.