Dick Allen

Ultimately, whatever package it is, the White Sox rank the prospects a bit differently from the publications, and they have to be right.

There are 29 other teams that would love to have Sale and Quintana in their rotation. The questions are, who actually has the pieces to add them, and who actually would move the required pieces to get them? It's probably only a handful of teams.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 10:01 AM) That is the position you find yourself in, however. The luxury of forcing someone to pay an exorbitant price dissipates as you continually fail to place a competitive team on the field. Chris Sale means very little as an asset if you don't liquidate the value of the asset. Otherwise, it's just a waste. Guess what? Other teams know this. Other teams understand we've got to unload these pieces at some point or else they basically spoil. That's why this notion that the White Sox "hold all the cards" is just horses***. Yes, they'd hold all the cards if their fall back position was keeping their assets and competing. However, they've shown no ability to do so. They do hold all the cards. Some team is going to have to give up a package that has never been given up for an ace before right now. Besides, if these teams were so keen on Sale and Quintana "spoiling", what is their motivation to trade a ton of talent for them?

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 09:45 AM) It isn't that simple, though. You have to consider injury risk, the depreciation of value as each year goes away, and then you also have to look ahead a bit at your own chances to compete and the market's opportunities to sell. It's pretty much an unprecedented trade to give up an ace signed cheaply for 3 more years. I really don't know if teams would be able to pay that much more than they would if he had 2 years left on his deal, which seems to be when guys get dealt now, and usually at a higher payroll number than Sale requires. To me there is a limit on what teams can and will give up. Yes, he might be less valuable next year, but that doesn't necessarlly mean the package to acquire him will be less.

QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 09:37 AM) I'd like to see the 1st round picks of the Cardinals or Cubs over the past decade. And I know those are strong examples. If not them, maybe throw in an Orioles or Tigers. Kind of middling teams. I wonder how much better or worse their first round picks are.. The Cardinals first round picks since 2007, and it's technically over 20 guys, collectively has the same WAR as Sale.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 09:10 AM) Three of the guys you bolded are pitchers which is fine. But two of them have not proven themselves. Tim Anderson is a nice pick but unproven so we will see on them. I agree it has gotten better but they need some serious offensive production out of top draftees. And yes the FO is accountable for the 47th and 48th pick not working out even if other teams fail. One of those guys was the 7th rated prospect in our farm and can't hit .260 in the minors. I'm not going to hold anybody that accountable for the 47th or 48th pick not working out, but what does sort of make me pause is that it is the same issue they have with so many picks. Not only can they not hit, they cannot make contact. For a while, the sabermatricians tried to sell everyone on the strike out is just another out belief. I personally think it was because these were the guys who played little league and struck out all the time because they sucked. Considering mathematics, a strike out isn't anywhere near like making contact. BABIP is about .300. Batting average whiffing is .000. Striking out a ton, unless you are hitting a lot of homers, is a sign you suck at hitting. It's really pretty simple. The Sox went for guys who could score high at a compound, but baseball is different. You need baseball players, not athletes. It's a lot harder to turn an athlete into a baseball player, than it is a football or basketball player.

We already have had posters say the Sox blew it by not trading Sale and Quintana at the deadline even after it was reported Benetendi and Moncada weren't on the table. The reality is, unless it's an obvious overpay, if a trade is made involving these guys, there are going to be calls for RH's head. And if no trade is made, it is going to be widely assumed they turned down an overpay. That anyone would even consider Mike Trout too little for Chris Sale, it's hard to imagine a Sale trade getting universal praise.

QUOTE (Ezio Auditore @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 08:09 AM) Nate Silver is taking heat from people from not including early voting totals in his forecasting model but the thing is, based on the way he does his math, I don't think he knows how. He'd be measuring two different things. Early voting isn't polls, it's people who've already voted, so he'd be trying to combine a measured guess against. He's built his brand off the public polling system from 2008, but it's changed since then. I was thinking about voting early on Saturday. They had it at a library near me. My wife voted early last week. The line on Saturday was at least a block long. I was amazed. So I passed. It usually isn't very long when I go in the regular place. I just wanted to be done with it.

Here's Obama getting heckled http://time.com/4559072/barack-obama-north...-heckler-video/ And here is what Trump said about it http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-...4b0d9ce6fbc616a How can anyone believe anything he ever says?

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Nov 5, 2016 -> 02:08 PM) 2 years ago Williams said that Sox fans "can dream again." He and Hahn thought they put contending teams on the field the last 2 years. Those 2 don't know what constitutes a good baseball team or organization. Yeah, why they didn't take your advice last winter and trade Eaton for whatever they could get, since he wasn't as good as his numbers , and build the team around Trayce Thompson is beyond me. They would be so much better off now. Stupid hero worshippers.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 5, 2016 -> 01:36 AM) I never saw it. Never heard of it. And I assure you I followed every game regular season and postseason in 05. Pretty much every season since then and before then. I haven't slacked off in my interest in the Sox. They broke it out that year in a series against the Dodgers. I don't know if it was from specifically 1959 or just around at that time. AJ hit a walk off homer vs them and the crowd was going nuts to it. God, the Sox used to be good.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 5, 2016 -> 02:23 AM) That bunt call was insane with two strikes. I do think Maddon and Francona are great great managers, but I also think ALL managers suck in terms of in game decisions. Where I love Maddon and Francona and hate Robin is the big picture. A good manager gets his team ready in spring training and thru his demeanor prevents what I call dysfunctional White Sox baseball. Everyone on Soxtalk knew our season was over after we blew that game when we were 23-10. And it was over. Maddon and Francona might have gotten us to 23-10 but they sure as hell wouldn't have let one game end our season and sure as hell wouldn't let us get simply owned by KC, Cleveland and Detroit year after year. Both Maddon and Francoan have finished in last place in their careers. In fact Feancona was fired from Boston after an epic collapse made them miss the playoffs with all sorts of clubhouse issues, which included 2 present Cubs. They had a 9 game lead in the WC on September 3rd and missed the playoffs.

QUOTE (Ezio Auditore @ Nov 4, 2016 -> 02:28 PM) Mary Mapes's career was killed, and Dan Rather's reputation forever tainted, for a lesser offense than what Brett Baer did pushing that phony "indictment" story for 3 days. If it was any place but Fox News, he would be done. But he knew it was false all the time, just like the Trump campaign knew it was false when Teump mentioned it in his rallies. But they want to get it in people's heads, because once it is there, it tends not to leave. Kellyanne was being questioned about it and she just admitted "the damage was done". Iits like a lawyer who does something in a trial they know will be objected to and sustained. They just want it in the jurors' heads even though they technically can't use it.

Some fans celebrated being at the parade by jumping into the Chicago River from a bridge. Some smart ones there.

QUOTE (Knuckles @ Nov 4, 2016 -> 01:12 PM) And Lackey, screw that guy. Lackey looks like he chose his dental implants from the Bill Parcells signature collection.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Nov 4, 2016 -> 11:55 AM) Re-f***ing-read my posts! I don't like the goddamn Cubs! You're as bad as a Trump supporter right now, ignoring the words and evidence put forth by the person your debating. Hilarious. How can you put down a Trump supporter. Some of them cry when they see him at his rallies. There are people dying of cancer that want nothing more than Donald to be President. How dare you act like a non fan and put them down. Here's some perspective for you, the Cubs and their fans to many of us, are what Trump and his supporters are to you. It doesn't appear like you will be saluting them if he wins on Tuesday.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Nov 4, 2016 -> 11:20 AM) Lol, the reason I think the way I do is because I haven't insulated myself with people who feel the same way as I do about things. That's the reason our country is so f***ed up. All fanbases have issues. I seem to recall an incident with some Sox fans and a KC base coach? Point is, some fans are kind of douchebags sometimes, and that holds true for all teams in all sports. As a fan of the game, I think the Cubs never winning is a greater story than them winning. But for a guy who doesn't want to think like everyone else, you sure do seem to have a problem with people not thinking like you.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Nov 4, 2016 -> 11:07 AM) Love when you don't even bother to actually read what I've written. I don't give a s*** about the Cubs outside of that one epic moment that contributed to the already incredible lore of baseball. I love the game, as I've repeated incessantly. But sure, paint me however best serves your injured ego. If you need to post on line with people who feel just like you do, go to a Cubs site. You can wax poetic for the next week straight. Just remember, this is the same fanbase that sent out death threats 13 years ago because one of their own tried to catch a foul ball. Now be happy for them. I actually watched the Bartman inning on youtube last week. He went for it, the guy next to him went for it, but the guy next to him totally whiffed. When security came around, they guy who whiffed was pointing at Bartman telling the security to throw him out.

QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 4, 2016 -> 10:57 AM) I didn't know a 15 minute rain delay was divine intervention. And the Heyward speech being immortalized might be the dumbest sports story in history. I guess he didn't listen to his own speech when he struck out horribly with the bases loaded. I guess anything to make it seem like he's not one of the worst signings in sports history at this point I was off work on Monday and in the morning I had to get something at the Marshall's downtown. Mr. $184 million man was in Marshalls himself. All the Cubby fans wearing their hats and shirts had no idea who he was.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Nov 4, 2016 -> 10:32 AM) Ok I'll speak slowly so you can understand: I am a Chicago White Sox fan. I also happen to f***ing LOVE the game of baseball. Because I'm a fan of the GAME, that world series was something special. I spent all series wanting the Cubs to lose, and then when I sat down in front of that screen something happened. Like I said, I didn't really care who won or who lost - it was the f***ing INDIANS vs the CUBS for god's sake. But man.... that game was the stuff of legends, and I was happy as hell to see it, and happy as hell for all my friends who were euphoric about it. My friend dying of cancer who saw her Cubs win? Yeah. I'm good with that. My friends' parents who are on their last legs getting a Cubs WS before they go? The tears they shared on FB? Yeah. I'm good with that. Does that make ANY sense to you? The love of the GAME. That's why I'm here on this board. Fair? That's you, I'm different. I get being happy for people because their team won a WS, but most White Sox fans should see really how little that matters. They are back to being pissed off at anything White Sox. If your friend was dying of cancer, why did you want the Cubs to lose when the series started? I think if you went on Maury, he would say, "that was a lie".

QUOTE (Reddy @ Nov 4, 2016 -> 10:26 AM) Donald Trump? There are plenty more annoying things in the world. People coming together and being happy about sports and putting aside whatever other differences they may have shouldn't be even close to the top of the list, IMO. I dig it. If that's how you feel, why are you posting on a White Sox board? Besides, using your logic, how can Trump be annoying? He holds rallies that have huge turnouts and make people happy, correct? Sorry, I don't like the Cubs, and never will. You can say it's silly, I don't really care.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Nov 4, 2016 -> 10:19 AM) I think all you guys b****ing are just ridiculous. We witnessed one of the greatest moments in the history of sports in that game 7, and all you care about is annoying Cubs fans on the train. It's been 2 days. They're allowed to be obnoxious. Are you guys really that sensitive that it bothers you? Man up. That's what Sox fans do and are supposed to do. You need to get over it. They were just as annoyed with us 11 years ago, and we certainly didn't care. I'm sure they give a rat's ass that we don't like it now. Why should it bother you? Just name one thing more annoying than a million or so people in Grant Park singing that stupid song Go, Cubs, Go?

The Cubs fan knuckleheads are out if full force. I wish I had the ability to hack into the sound system at Grant Park. I would start the festivities with Lee Elia's 1983 tirade against Cubs fans. 85% of the people work, the other 15% come out here, it's a playground for those c-suckers.

QUOTE (whitesoxjr27 @ Nov 3, 2016 -> 03:21 PM) How is Harry a phony? I am curious. He made it seem he was a man of the people. It couldn't be farther from the truth. He was known not to treat people very well

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Nov 3, 2016 -> 06:07 PM) Cubs have big name financial institutions behind them. Do you think they assumed the Cubs would win the World Series when they lent them the dough? No. They would have assumed a historic level of cash flow. Lenders don't assume a "best case" scenario. The Cubs are making way more money than they need to meet debt obligations. They are OK now but they were in trouble 2 or3 years ago. The guy that owns the South Bend team bought 20% of the team for 300 million. They use that to pay off a lot of the construction. the guy who was the beat writer in the Sun Times Gordon something, used to always come on and said a few times the banks with the loans were pressuring Ricketts to sell the team. Not just a minority stake.