Dick Allen

The cost to replace Sale and/or Q and/or Eaton and/or Abreu, is a lot more than they currently are being paid, so RH is going to have to be GM of the year to get packages for all that turns the team entirely around in 2 or 3 years after giving up it's best players. Many of the names mentioned will be really good players. Many of the names mentioned will be forgotten in a year or 2. They cannot miss. 2011 the Padres were ranked with the best farm system. Liriano who the White Sox just claimed on waivers was their top prospect. Rizzo was ranked 6th. BP had them ranked incorrectly, but the White Sox have to get it right, because there will be a package that gets it right, and it may not look as good currently as one that looks great now, but won't in 3 years. Unfortunately, when you are trading Chris Sale at this point, looking back and saying it made sense at the time won't cut it. You have to look back on it and say you made a really good deal.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 16, 2016 -> 09:14 AM) Remember when the other parts of that trade helped the Sox win the division in 2000? Caruso wasnt the only player in that trade that made the majors, Howry and Foulke had pretty good careers and both of them were key parts of the 2000 team. Look, i understand people are worried about a rebuild. It is risky and there are no guarantees. But insinuating that the Sox shouldnt go down that path because of a trade that happened almost 20 years ago is ridiculous. The crown jewel of that trade was supposed to be Barceló, but he got hurt. KW called him a p****. Said he had to pitch through some pain. Turned out he needed elbow and shoulder surgery. That turned out OK, especially since they were guys that were out of here anyway. Sale is a different story. Prospects can be great or they can get you excited and wind up being Avi Garcia and Matt Davidson. The Avi trade wasn't a killer since Peavy was going to go and they did get Montas who turned out to have value.

Trump is making his cabinet choices like the Apprentice. He tweeted he is the only one who knows who the finalists are. That is encouraging. The guy with zero experience isn't seeking help.

So Ben Carson said no to his appointment with DhHS because he thought he was not qualified. Didn't he run for president?

Ape in heels wasn't intended to be racist. Those that know her know she's not a racist. http://www.9news.com.au/world/2016/11/15/1...-sparks-outrage

QUOTE (raBBit @ Nov 15, 2016 -> 02:53 PM) Buddy Bell isn't involved in acquisitions and evals he's in charge of overseeing the development of players in the minor leagues. The people involved in this process are: 1.) KW/Hahn - negotiations, deal framework, risk diversification, money, etc. This has been mostly Hahn since even before he took over as GM. That doesn't mean he isn't acting under the direction of his boss though. Hopefully were past that. 2.) Jeremy Haber/Dan Fabian - Haber weighs in on evals and makes player recs. Fabian is the head of all analytics adding support or guidance where needed. 3.) Professional scouts - The guys who were scouting any player the Sox may potentially acquire back in July-September. They also scout the prospects in the AFL. 4.) Amateur scouts - They weigh in on guys who were recent draft picks. So for instance, the Southeastern amateur college scouts would give their notes on Benintendi and they would be vetted against the scouts in the Eastern League or more likely, the Carolina League who watched Benintendi this year. Plus you have a lot of scouts who are either higher in rank or assigned to cold or less fruitful areas who watch players like, say Cody Bellinger, in his high school showcases or National exposure games. 5.) Marco Paddy - If the Sox are trading with the Dodgers and Yadier Alvarez was in play, they'd call Marco Paddy who told me he specifically saw Alvarez when he was still in Cuba. 6.) Dan Stritmatter (sp?) - He handles video coordination and works hand-in-hand with Fabian. If they wanted to find tape of a lesser known guy who's rounding out a package this is where they turn. The Sox FO's has been inadequate in plenty of different ways over the years. Even so, as much as the lazy narratives around here would lead you to think it's just Kenny Williams, Rick Hahn and in your case, Buddy Bell, just sitting in an office bulls***ting up a package that's simply not the case. They have been working and preparing for a trade with at least the Red Sox and Dodgers for almost a half year. Given what I was told around the deadline that never came into fruition, they've probably been set and prepared to sell just didn't get the okay from management until this offseason. They are capable of making excellent trades. Eaton for Santiago was a steal.Everyone is going to miss. The good ones just don't do it as often. They can miss on the short term guys. But if they trade Sale, Q, or Eaton, that has to be looked back on 3 or 4 years from now fondly.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 15, 2016 -> 12:57 PM) So let me get this straight, if we blow these trades, we could have a "horrendous decade or two", but if we hold them we avoid this risk? So no chance these guys get injured, their performance declines, or they simply leave once their contracts expire? While rebuilding is no doubt risky, doing nothing or very little is far more risky. I don't get the allure of a half-ass rebuild, it's the lack of clear direction over the past few years that has got us in this terrible spot. We need to pick a direction and commit 100% one way or the other. I am using 2012 because it is 4 years down the line. If the Sox acquired the top 10 prospects in all of baseball that year for Sale, Q, Eaton, they are even worse than they are now. http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2012/ipad/

There are plenty of reasons to be scared. Prospects bust. Here is BPs list of the top farm systems after the 2012 draft. The Sox are last. There are a lot of 4 and 5 star guys you would say "the Sox traded xxx for that?" http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article....articleid=16208 I understand the necessity, but there is no reason to over do it. Trading for prospects is a risky thing. A lot of the guys who seem to be can't miss will wind up being no better than the crap the Sox already have. The Sox cannot cave. Blowing these trades, and taking whatever because "their value will never be higher" could lead to a horrendous decade or two. These trades have to be won.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 15, 2016 -> 10:54 AM) I love Eaton, but I don't think ANY team thinks he's a 6 win player going forward. The problem with deriving so much value from your arm is that people stop giving you the chance to throw them out. The problem with deriving so much value from rangey plays is that you don't always get the opportunity to make rangey plays. The defensive "production" is likely to regress, even if he plays exactly as well as he did this year. On top of that (and possibly partially because of that), players like Eaton tend to consistently command less on the trade/free agent market than everyone expects. I think most teams would love to have him, but I don't think he would return what most seem to be expecting. There's a good chance he's more valuable to the Sox on the field than he is as trade bait. Yes but he has been a top 10 WAR player for a year and a half, even when he was negative in CF. in 2015. He is signed so cheaply, and is controlled as long as guys who just completed their rookie seasons. If teams refuse to run on him and that hurts his WAR, that shows a problem with the WAR. Players not even attempting to take another base is a pretty valuable commodity to have in an OF.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 15, 2016 -> 08:01 AM) Well not sure I agree about the regressing part. Eaton is a speed guy, and while he may not steal a ton of bags, he provides a lot of value on the bases and his range in RF is a signicant driver of his value. It's very real possibility he starts declining in the next couple of years. Will he suddenly become a bad baseball player? Hell no, but assuming he's a 6 WAR player three or four years from is a pretty optimistic projection. Also, the idea of a successful rebuild in two to three years is only possible if you're dealing multiple impact pieces. Simply dealing Sale, Frazier, Melky, & Robertson isn't going to be enough. That doesn't mean we have to deal Eaton, but a couple guys like him, Quintana, Abreu, & Jones need to go to accelerate this thing. Tradimg all of their good players away for 20-25 prospects is would be Christmas for some when it happened. The reality is, they will still need more. So either you will have to trade some of those prospects for established players or sign free agents. A free agent with Eaton production 2 or 3 years from now would probably cost $200 million if not more.

QUOTE (PolishPrince34 @ Nov 15, 2016 -> 07:43 AM) Toronto, Giants, Mets, and St. Louis would probably have strong interest in Eaton. Every team would have a strong interest in Eaton. He is being held pretty short on this board. He has off the charts value. Fangraphs pegs his 2016 season worth a little more tha $48 million. It pegs his 3 years with the White Sox worth $100.7 million, and they have him signed for 5 more years for a total of $38 million with $1.5 million outs the last 2 years if something should go wrong.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 15, 2016 -> 07:26 AM) Dick, you're a smart poster and know the answer here. Eaton is at peak value, while Rodon & Anderson could significantly improve their value if they take that next step. You obviously need to be blown away, but there is definitely logic in moving Eaton if the right offer comes along. You'd probably have to get a decent major league piece back in the deal, because we're talking about a guy who could provide $150M to $200M in surplus value over the five years of his contract. If a rebuild is successful and in 2 or 3 seasons the Sox can compete, he is still a bargain for multiple years. Again, a top 10 in MLB Position player WAR, and it isn't like he is due to regress. Trading 6 WAR players who aren't about to become free agents, or who don't make a huge amount of money, and hoping you get back a similar player is for fools. 5 seasons from now Adam Eaton will still be paid $2 million less than what a 44 year old Bartolo Colon just signed for. Trading him would be making a trade just to make a trade. It would most likely look stupid in the end. All things considered, he actually is probably more valuable than Sale

Adam Eaton is a 6WAR player with 5 years of control for $38 million. Over the last season and a half, he has been one of the top 10 position players in baseball. Why would the Sox trade him? If you are trading him why not Rodon? Why not Anderson?

The conflict of interest thing is starting to become yuge.

Baseball busted for PEDs, tarred and feathered. Football busted for PEDs, see you in 4 weeks.

I don't know if Ozzie JR. Has solid info or he is just playing games, but the Guillens do know a lot of people, so it wouldn't surprise me he has info.

Th Dodgers really need Sale the most. Maybe the Sox will get Trace back.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Nov 14, 2016 -> 09:17 AM) Other than that Rob Hill guy (who is he?), I haven't seen it confirmed. Don't doubt it is in the works, but still seems odd. He looks like a HS kid, and I am sure his source was whitesoxdave

I would imagine yesterday's effort coming off a bye seals Fox's fate. I would be shocked if he came back next year.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Nov 14, 2016 -> 09:08 AM) I think it is far from official with no word from the Sox. Perhaps they've alerted him that they plan to move on, although that would seem like a dumb move as it takes away any degree of leverage they had in trade talks. I thought someone had something since the title of the thread changed.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Nov 14, 2016 -> 08:36 AM) Do we know that Saladino is healthy? I imagine the White Sox know. But he seems to get injured more than most.

If this is pretty much official, it is the first domino in a rebuild. It isn't like Lawrie was due a ton of money. It isn't like Saldino has been the picture of health during his career and is actually older than him. I liked his energy, and power. everything considered, it probably isn't a huge loss because he had the one year anyway. But I don't think I would have punted.

He was put in orthotics this year according to his Twitter. He says that although his feet felt fine, the orthotics were th reason for his injury. I have the flatest feet in the world, and orthotics have been a godsend for me, but if you don't really need them, they can mess you up.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Nov 13, 2016 -> 02:40 PM) Don't let lost see this post. He might end up defending him again. When he isn't turning the ball over he is top of the line..

Cutty with 2 INTs and 2 fumbles. All the talent in the world, but turnovers are what makes him mediocre.