Dick Allen

Giolito"s grandfather was George Costanza's fiancé's father on Seinfeld.

QUOTE (daggins @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 06:45 PM) I kind of agree, but it's also very early in the rebuild and the Sox have two premium chips in Quintana and Jones. A lot could still be coming. I think the whole thing with the Cubs strategy with hitters is young hitters are far more projectable . The top rated pitchers have a higher bust rate. At least that was in a Grantland article I read.

Rizzo seemed pretty hellbent on cashing in on Giolito this week. I guess when you are rebuilding you probably just go for best package and not focus too much on position, but one thing I agree with ss2k5 on, is I would prefer them acquiring high end position players. Worry about the pitchers later when you are ready.

QUOTE (FT35 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:52 PM) Gotta agree here...a lot of fans forget--the teams in win now mode who are serious in adding players like Q or Eaton as the final pieces of a TOP contending team are not likely to deal a MLB piece that is a LARGE part of what makes them a top contending team. Turner is the Nationals' Kris Bryant--MVP caliber talent who could lead them to a title. Why would they trade for a couple of upgrades if it meant losing their difference maker? It's the same reason why the Red Sox didn't add Betts into the deal last summer for Sale. Notice the current MLB difference makers they traded to get Sale...None. The Nats would rather go after Cutch or buy Fowler than trade away Trea Turner to get Eaton added into a Quintana deal. The thing about Turner is he is going to regress to the mean. He isn't a .342 hitter. He isn't a 25 home run guy. He's still valuable player, but ..

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 03:23 PM) Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin 42s43 seconds ago Maryland, USA Source: White Sox working on a deal to send Adam Eaton to the Nationals. IT'S HAPPENING I would imagine Robles would have to be included. Considering the contract, I don't see how it can be for much less than the Sale offer. Man are the White Sox going to be bad for a couple of years. I really didn't think they would trade Eaton for prospects. Too good, and too friendly of a contract, with 5 years on it.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 03:19 PM) Soxtalk translation at the moment is any prospect that isn't Trea Turner, Benintendi, Swanson, Urias or Bregman are second tier. To be fair, the people doing this are only looking at the few teams rumored to be in on these players, so with a few exceptions it is pretty accurate.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 03:01 PM) There's not a GM in baseball that would come close to considering Adam Eaton a "major award-caliber player." How many of those guys are around? He's averaged 4.2 fWAR the past 3 years, and it's been rising. He's signed for $38 million over the next 5 seasons. If other teams don't want to value that for what it's worth, the Sox can keep him and be fine with the best RF in town for $145 million less than Theo paid for his physical specimen who forgot how to hit homers 4 years ago, and forgot how to hit at all in 2016.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:48 PM) Not simple enough for DA. You knew this one was coming. The SS2k5 signature post. As one of the guys trying to make Sale a bad guy, maybe you should take his post to heart.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:49 PM) You should read the thread again. The debate started because we were talking about Eaton's value now vs Heyward's value then. They were compared because much of their WAR value is in their defense. My position is that Heyward was far more valuable at the time because Heyward has better tools and athleticism. It's certainly not unheard of for a an athletically gifted baseball player to continue to develop at the age of 26. The Cubs were willing to take a risk because of his upside. Eaton does not possess that upside. If Heyward was worth $184 million, what is Eaton worth? As far as upside, Eaton has gone from a 3.1 WAR, to a 3.7 WAR to a 6.0 WAR his 3 years with the White Sox. He might not put up a 6 WAR again, but why wouldn't he be a consistent 4-5 WAR guy?

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:44 PM) To be fair to Taylor's bad argument, the question wasn't who is more valuable in a trade, because that is WITHOUT A DOUBT Adam Eaton and that's not up for debate. The question was simply who is the better player, to which I think it's Eaton based on numbers, and he thinks it's Heyward based on his height. Big guy, lots of tools, raw power. 25 years old. Taylor must love Avi Garcia.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:40 PM) Jesus christ, what's with the strawmen? Did I ever say they didn't value defense? I said a team isn't going to give up the farm for a guy whose WAR has been drastically inflated due to RF defense. Maybe if he was a plus defender at CF, C, or SS. He was a 4.0 WAR player with below average defense in CF in 2015, and he's owed $38 million the next 5 years. He is a lot better than you think. If teams don't want to pony up, the White Sox aren't going to trade him.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:36 PM) Okay, replace the 5 with a 6 and address the post. They are 8 months apart in age. Apparently Heyward's tools took a huge hit and now that he is almost 28, using your criteria, there really isn't any hope these tools develop. I actually think Eaton is improving, and think he will hit with more power. I also though Heyward would hit with more power when he became a Cub, but he is messed up, and hasn't hit for much power in several years.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:33 PM) Let's go over this again... "Heyward was signed as a 25 year old." "Eaton will be traded as a 28 year old." Established 25 year olds with plus tools have more value than established 28 year olds with limited tools. Poll 30 MLB GM's and ask them which player has more potential. I think you're going to get a pretty clear cut idea. Actually he wasn't signed as a 25 year old. Do you really think they would think the same today? Also, of the 30, is there 1 that would trade Adam Eaton straight up for Jason Heyward?

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:31 PM) And the Cubs added Gleybar Torres to their Yankees deal because interviews told them that Chapman was a boy scout not because they wanted to win the World Series at all costs. I have no idea what that has to do wih it, but OK. Chris Sale is the biggest asshole in baseball. Now you can be happy.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:18 PM) Compared to Jason Heyward? Is this even up for debate? Heyward signed as a 25 year old with good established offensive production and the plus tools to project increased production. He wasn't signed because of his defensively inflated WAR. Eaton will be traded as an established 28 year old without near the upside to project. He's a hell of a player, but his some of his numbers are smoke and mirrors. GM's aren't dumb. Eaton is 8 months older than Heyward. You must really love Heywards raw power, I'll take results. Eaton has hit more homers than him each of the last 2 seasons. And if Eaton's WAR is all from defense, how do you conclude Heyward's is not? Look at their offensive numbers.

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:05 PM) And Heyward is notably better in the clubhouse based on the stuff he did in the World Series. Since we don't have clubhouse access, to say someone is notably better is ludicrous.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 01:54 PM) Ouch. Shots fired. But well deserved. There are no shots fired. He's just praising their organization. If anyone thinks he is taking shots at the White Sox, you might want to actually read the article http://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/for-chr...is-bittersweet/

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 01:27 PM) What did Ken Williams do that made him an asshole? He was responding to a complaint from in the locker room. And if you cut up an entire wardrobe of jerseys before a game because you don't like the color, you're a jerk. He has done a lot to make himself an asshole. He got into a verbal war with maybe the greatest player in franchise history saying the "man is an idiot". He went and signed a washed up Jeff Nelson in 2006 for the sole purpose of making Frank Thomas look bad because Frank had a bad history against him. It didn't work. Frank lit him up and Nelson was quickly released. He got into a public spat with his old manager. He has stepped on his current GMs toes several times. He has sparred verbally with fans at Soxfest who have every questioned his ways. Not to mention when Ron Schueler resigned as GM, he recommended Danny Evans to JR because he thought KW's personality would rub other teams the wrong way and would lead to problems. As for cutting up jerseys, I've stated there is no defense. When I first heard it I laughed it off. It couldn't possibly be true, but it was. But I think he honestly thought it would hurt his performance. It's silly, he's probably not the brightest guy, but it really doesn't make him a jerk.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 01:21 PM) The White Sox are pretty much in the same position as the Twins. It has nothing to do with that. It has to do with the ballpark. Holland is better suited to pitch and be successful in a place like Minnesota or KC.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 01:03 PM) This. He can't handle being told something he doesn't want to hear. I think we all have issues with this.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 01:18 PM) I think they have the prospects, we just liked the package for Sale more then the package they offered. In Cutch's case, I think it is more that the two teams can't agree on what the right price is, not that the nats don't have the talent to get it done. They most definitely have the horses to do it, will they want to pay the price, that is another question. I was a little surprised to hear that for most of the baseball industry, package the White Sox received was considered head and shoulders above Giolito/Robles/ Lopez which supposedly was their offer for Sale. Q/Eaton are so much surplus, Turner has to be part of it, or I don't see how it makes sense for the White Sox. I think trading your 2 most valuable assets to the same team probably isn't the best way to maximize value in a return.

If they didn't have the prospects for Sale/Cutch, I don't see how they have the prospects for this. Q is probably worth a little less than Sale, but Eaton should be valued a bit higher than Cutch. Maybe this is Rizzo try to waste RH/KW's time after they used him to perfection yesterday. The only thing I can think of is maybe it could depend on what the Yankees were going to give up for Gio. That could have added to their inventory. But I can't see how you give up both of these guys and not get Turner as part of the package. Even if they gave you their top 10, it isn't worth it IMO.

QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 01:01 PM) Is Chris Sale a a hard head? Does he stand by what he believes in? Is he a rebel? I think yes, he rebels against management for what he believes in, but I don't think that makes him an asshole. Did he punch a teammate in the face? Did he beat his wife or sleep with another teammate's? Did he get away with murder charges like other pro athletes have? Or does he have the facial expression of one Conor Gillaspie... I didn't think so. Unless people have more specific evidence or know him personally I think it's silly to declare Sale an asshole now that he's with another org. By all accounts I think he's a pretty cool dude based on how he interacted with the fans (some on this forum had first hand experience), the way he stuck his neck out for a kid, and his post game interviews. It's just White Sox fan mentality. They have to find something wrong with their nice things. Sale is pretty flawless on the field, so when he calls that asshole KW an asshole, the guy is a total douchebag. The same thing happens with Eaton. There was some anonymous comment when he was traded here how it was addition by subtraction for AZ because he was cocky. Eaton addressed it right away, said he was surprised anyone felt like that, apologized if he offended anyone. Thought he got along with everyone OK, said he had to play with a chip on his shoulder and a cocky attitude to be successful. He is successful, and even though he has been here 3 years, no one plays harder, he now has attitude issues, you know from that report in AZ. He's a clubhouse cancer, no one can stand him even though they made him the player rep, and he's pretty certain to have a public meltdown if the Sox trade away most of their core but keep him. It's some of the goofiest stuff I have ever read. And I've read most of Caulfield's posts.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 12:57 PM) If there were negative responses, do really think the Red Sox would have reported it? "The consensus on this guy in the clubhouse was 50-50, but f*** it, we want to win." If only front offices were that honest. They added Yoan Moncada to their offer. I think that's a pretty good sign the response wasn't he's a clubhouse cancer.

Abreu and Moncada actually were teammates for a little while in Cuba.