Dick Allen

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 01:37 PM) Here's the reality, the vast majority of people at a baseball game aren't there for the game. They're there for the attraction. You can still attract fans by making it reasonably priced and fun. It's not rocket science. Then why haven't they drawn more, and why would putting a better team out there make things better if the game didn't matter? The last time the Sox did a total rebuild was 1987 attendance 1987 1,208,060 1988 1,115,749 1989 1,045,951 Then they won 94 games and drew 2 million in 1990.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 12:46 PM) These are going to be dark times. Fans may be okay with the rebuild but look how long it took the Cubs. It got to a point where Cubs fans stopped coming to games. The fans will not show up to the G and will probably watch another team during the first two years. Sadly that team may be the Cubs. Yes. Theo's plan was questioned. Banks were all over Ricketts to sell the team. And theirs went pretty well. If being in first place in 2012 for most of the season didn't inspire anyone to buy a ticket, the line up that they are going to throw out their in 2017 isn't going to inspire anyone either, regardless of whether or not you support a total rebuild. There might be a couple of people, but I guarantee more will do less. I have a 27 game package and went to about 45 games last year. No way I go to 45 in 2017. And I have been a lot more tolerant of bad baseball than 99% of the posters here. Watching the White Sox get killed with replacement level or lower players scattered through the line up, I can do on my couch and save myself a lot of hassle. I'll start doing more than my package when they put a team on the field that is legitimately major league. It won't be that in 2017.

QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 11:45 AM) Fans didn't show up the past 5 years "while trying to win" and f***ing sucking. I expect the ballpark will be mostly empty the first few months of 2017, but when your Moncadas and Giolitos etc. start getting called up, more and more people will come back over the course of the next few years. Young players with star potential are very exciting to a lot of people. Obviously, our franchise won't get a full reboot with the attendance until the whole team is competitive, but the sense that I get is that our fanbase is freshly energized from this moves and the excitement will rise further when more players get moved. No they won't. They barely showed up for Chris Sale starts despite lower level seats with free t-shirts for $15 or $20. I appreciate all the people who are thinking about or actually buying tickets, but as a whole, it isn't going to happen. Attendance will be way off. All this talk was like the talk right after 9/11 how people were going to buy stocks for America, so the stock market didn't crash. The stock market crashed. Those that bought stocks to be patriotic got burned. Its one thing to sit through 3 or 4 of those, but you buy a season ticket package, you are going to wonder why you just didn't go to Stubhub.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 06:37 AM) Out of the seven players we acquired, three of them will be ready at some point next year. Giolito & Lopez should be able to step into the rotation immediately, although it's very possible they aren't up until some point in May or whenever the date is to get that extra year of team control. Moncada needs more seasoning and will certainly not be up until that same date. I'm super excited to follow all three of these guys next year. I find it fascinating that in year 1 of our rebuild, we'll already have three young, high ceiling starters in our rotation. That alone makes 60% of games watchable to me. A dynamic middle infield of Anderson & Moncada should keep the rest of the games at least somewhat interesting. I fully acknowledge that I'm a diehard fan who is excited to watch young players develop, while most casual fans only care about winning. But you know what, who the f*** cares? Attendance & TV ratings don't matter in a rebuild, all we should care about is developing a young core that can lead to sustainable success. And that's exactly what these first two moves are setting us up for. Is that really what you want though in a rebuild? Why do you want 2 or 3 or 4 years of control lost on meaningless games? If anything, this should stop the Sox for even thinking of rushing a guy. Keep them down all year if necessary. No use starting their clocks to get clocked. It isn't like they are going to hit the mound and have a ton of help behind them and a bunch of runs scored for them.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 08:26 PM) right you know more than a local reporter that has almost 4K followers on Twitter. Honestly you are one of the worst posters I have ever come across in 10+ years of heavy sports message board reading. At least you could acknowledge I was right, and what this guy wrote really made no sense from the get go.

QUOTE (shipps @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 11:30 AM) I think they are excited now but the truth will show once we suck next season and when the prospects we got in return have some bad months and struggle. There will be the same people who are cheering this now jumping ship as soon as it starts hurting. They are patting Hahn on the back now. When they are 28-57 half way through the season, and if a couple of these new acquisitions are pitching like Carson Fulmer in 2016, KW will have been swindled, and Rick Renteria will make them pine for Robin Ventura. No fan base is patient in a rebuild, especially when it looks like the team will be rock bottom bad. The Cubs had the fortune of not having too many bumps in their road. Far less than most, but they were there. Rizzo struggled for a while. Baez was considered a bust on this board a year ago. Castro became mediocre. They had other prospects who Theo inherited that were highly thought of who did crap. Brett Jackson comes to mind. Chances are some of the guys the Sox acquired are either going to totally suck, or will have a lot of growing pains. I get people wanting them to be so terrible they get a top draft pick for a couple of years, but frankly, I couldn't stand it. Depending how low they go, if it's too low and it's more than a season of being god awful, they are going to alienate a large percentage of their ticket buyers.

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 11:22 AM) I was referring to "elite" position players, perhaps those rated in the top 25 players in the minors. The Sox need position players that can hit the ball, excite the fan base, and put fannies in the seats. One of Trea Turner, Bregman or Benintendi could very well be worth more than all of the pitching prospects they just acquired. And that is why they are the untouchables. Ask most casual Sox fans for the names of the guys that the Sox just acquired for Sale and Eaton. Most will only recall one name - Moncada. For years, even before KW was the GM, the Sox focused more on pitching in the draft than hitters. I remember one year they actually contemplated taking only pitchers. The thought was they develop pitching, they could acquire hitting. As we have seen recently, that is not the case. Offense, despite playing in a bandbox has been horrid. Eaton-gone, Frazier-gone, in a couple years if not sooner-Abreu gone, Melky-gone. They haven't been able to trade for much offense over the years. They need to focus on that with their remaining trade chips.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 11:15 AM) Our "bargain basement" team friendly deals go away, yes. But our payroll is going to be next to nothing after we deal Robertson, Frazier, Melky, Quintana, etc. We will be entering an amazing free agent class with loads of money to spend on talent. Most of our players will be cost controlled giving us great flexibility for when we are ready to compete again I hope it goes that smoothly.

QUOTE (Ezio Auditore @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 10:11 AM) I guess because "Fall" is for the playoffs and World Series, and everyone considers December a winter month even though it's technically fall for 2/3 of it. And most of Spring Training is not during the Spring.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 09:55 AM) 3 years from beginning to end is insane. Even 5 years puts us at 2021. That is another problem the Sox have. The Cubs got good right when their top guys hit the big leagues, except for the half a billion they spend on pitching. They have a lot of control. If this takes 4 or 5 years, if these guys are as good as advertised, they will have not so much control and will be hitting arb. It would be more like KC, where then you would have a 2 or 3 year window before you have to be prepare for a gigantic payroll or start over. It will be interesting to see the team's ownership situation in 4 or 5 years. If you think about it, maybe JR will sell after next season. The payroll will be next to nothing with no long term commitments. Then you have the 2018 free agent class, and many new owners like to spend cash to get the ball rolling. Sign a star or two, get some good development, maybe they can be interesting in 2 years, but a lot more will have to go right than had to go right when they were piece mealing a run at a playoff berth.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 09:48 AM) I don't think he got hosed, I just think Hahn got him in the perfect storm where because he did not have enough for Sale and Hahn was in those talks, he created a perfect value benchmark for Eaton. The thing is, if Eaton is anywhere near a 5 or 6 WAR player the next 5 seasons, he probably was worth more in trade than Sale for the extra 2 years at the same total cash. Eaton, Q, those guys are undervalued by many, including people whose job it is to know these things. I was watching MLBN and someone was making a case why Eaton is not worth anything near Cutch in trade. That's just being lazy. Rizzo said his analytics people and old school scouting people were the same on Eaton. It's a huge asset to give up. I hope it works out. Hahn is going to see all his bargain basement team friendly deals go to other teams this off season. I doubt he has much luck having 3 or 4 of those types of contracts on one roster again. BTW, why do the call them the Winter Meetings when it isn't technically Winter?

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 09:31 AM) When is Beer eligible to be drafted? Sign me up for tanking I hate to sound like Caulfield but Seth Beer would be Brooks Boyer's wet dream. He would have no problem coming up stuff for him.

QUOTE (soxfan49 @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 09:27 AM) I'm probably overreacting, but I feel like if Hahn deals Quintana and Abreu OR Frazier, this team may not win 55 games. It depends on how many other teams are doing the same thing. Other than Anderson, most of the Sox better prospects will be in the minors, so it's going to be really ugly and uninteresting. But since I already have my deposit down, there are worse ways to spend a summer afternoon than watching baseball, even if it is bad.

Rizzo probably has a history of making fewer poor trades as any GM . The jump to conclusion he got hosed by a lot in the media and in the game concerns me. I hope he did get hosed, but he seemed very focused on cashing in on Giolito during these meeting. It doesn't mean he won't be burned. People were leery about dealing with Billy Beane and he traded Josh Donaldson for Brett Lawrie. I hope they are looking at packages for their other players that emphasize s postion players. Yeah, it's nice to have all these guys. But one or two or more may bust, or may get hurt. They have had a tough time forever developing hitters. Trade for some another team has done some developing.

QUOTE (longshot7 @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 12:55 AM) Really????? I haven't read the rest of this thread, but I came to the site just now because of how excited I am. I don't get it. I might even buy season tickets because of today and yesterday. I get a kick out of the people who say they will go to more games this year. Maybe there is a chance you will but overall people won't. If the teams the last 5 or 6 years were hard to watch, and last year's team was actually really good at home, the 2017 team is going to be hard to stomach. What is compelling about watching Derek Holland give up homers and if the don't leave the yard, watching Avi Garcia chase the down? Nothing. Maybe in a couple of years, but if you thought the baseball was too bad to watch before, it isn't going to be better this year. And I have season tickets. Even Cubs fans stayed away to a certain extent when they did what the Sox are doing.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 09:14 PM) Himes? Larry Himes. Took over for Hawk. Sent Harold away. Traded all the starting pitchers.i think Fisk, Ozzie, and Ivan Calderon were the only guys he kept. He even traded Kenny Williams.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 09:07 PM) Guys... they've NEVER rebuilt like this. In fact, of Q is traded I won't be able to remember any team doing something like this before. Himes did. He traded everybody.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 09:05 PM) How the White Sox Won the Winter Meetings Whatever you think of the rebuild, if they didn't do it, it would have been the most boring Winter Meetings of all time.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 09:04 PM) Might not get the "elite" guy back for Q. Hopefully can make up somehow. They have to get elite for him.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 08:54 PM) My point is that reed wss really bad in 48 games batting .164 overall and .064 vs lefties. With below average defense the bat must play or he will be worthless He was awful. Buying low might not be a bad idea.

QUOTE (oneofthemikes @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 08:57 PM) If ATL could give up Albies, Maitan, Riley, and maybe one more, I'd hear them out. I read somewhere they aren't ga ga over Q.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 08:51 PM) OK, one thing we should know as Sox fans is that there is zero chance of them bidding on top line free agents when we are going to be coming off of two completely terrible season. We don't do that coming off of good seasons. I don't know why this has taken traction, but look at the White Sox free agent history, and tell me why there is any answer other than no. By the time they will be buying free agents, Obama will own the team and he likes to spend money according to many.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 08:38 PM) Reed batted .064 against lefties in 48 games. That is unbelievably bad and worth considering. Time to declare him a failed prospect? Of course not, but his value is down Kyle Schwarber has 8 career hits vs. lefties and he is highly regarded.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 08:26 PM) right you know more than a local reporter that has almost 4K followers on Twitter. Honestly you are one of the worst posters I have ever come across in 10+ years of heavy sports message board reading. Yeah the hold up is how much of Q s comtract the Sox are eating. LMAO if you buy that.

QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 08:16 PM) No clue who this person is but: https://twitter.com/ShutdownInning/status/806676420177051651 "Hearing Quintana to the Astros is "all but done." Working out a couple of kinks in the last hour. No word on pkg to CWS. #Astros #WhiteSox" He is also tweeting the White Sox are eating salary. He is full of s***.