Dick Allen

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 14, 2016 -> 01:41 PM) You do realize that tomorrow's game counts towards the team's standings at the end of the season, don't you? Yes, but to expect him to come in guns a blazing is beyond insane. Of course his numbers weren't going to be tremendous. It's as ludicrous as holding what a guy does his first 4 or 5 spring training games against them. And the guy he is replacing on the roster is 2-22 with 5 walks and 9 strikeouts.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 14, 2016 -> 01:37 PM) Well, he's 2/17 in Charlotte. 1 BB, 1 3b. You do realize those were his firsts ABs vs pitchers trying to get him out in about 9 months don't you?

QUOTE (Dunt @ Jul 14, 2016 -> 12:09 PM) Good thing they didnt plan for this at all in the month he had already been gone. Shuck has been pretty good the last month.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 14, 2016 -> 12:08 PM) Here's someone people on here may not want to hear...but Melvin Upton. He's +11 in DRS. Have good years in offensive WAR and defensive. He's the guy once they traded for him that would put up 2011 Adam Dunn numbers.

Maybe the fact that his is making $1.5 million and hasn't dominated AAA makes his getting through waivers pretty simple. Or maybe they keep him around and work him out of the bullpen.

QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Jul 14, 2016 -> 10:01 AM) so .... baseball starts again tomorrow right? next topic please But the guy jumped into a pool. He could have been killed.

He does make a point. ESPN brought us the X Games, therefore, all their information must be superior. It's just as logical as any of his other posts.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 14, 2016 -> 08:22 AM) If it's that simple, why does ESPN, who is supposed to be the foremost authority on sports news and information...choose not to use it? Why would they deliberately want to be wrong if it's in their best interest to use the best statistics? It wouldn't cost them more money to use a different version of WAR, would it? With the knowledgeable baseball guys over there like Law, Callis, Stark, Schoenfield...what's the reason? Has anyone ever asked that question? And because simply having a higher WAR in a limited number of at-bats doesn't automatically mean it could be extrapolated out over a full season for a bench player. If that was the case, the Reds would take Saladino for Bruce, the Dodgers Saladino for Puig? And yet we know both of those trades are pretty much unrealistic...right? Or even for Beltran to rent him for 2-3 months, or Josh Reddick. There are MANY players who wouldn't stand up over the test of full-time play, but their abilities can be maximized as part-time or bench players. Regardless of what version of WAR you use, it's just ONE snapshot...one of hundreds of statistics you could look at, when assessing a position player. One thing that's clear statistically is that Puig's defense has improved pretty dramatically compared to years past. But hey...if the White Sox want to go down with the Avi Garcia Ship, more power to them. I'd hate to see how he grades out about right now. ESPN is the foremost authority on sports news and information? You must think McDonald's is the foremost authority on how to make a burger.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jul 13, 2016 -> 06:41 PM) Lawrie is also the guy that tweeted that he was going to rehab several years ago, so I don't think he's the sharpest tool in the shed. Rehab as in rehab assignment. Not a problem with addiction.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 13, 2016 -> 06:28 PM) http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/pos...qualified/false No, it was for all MLB outfielders, not just AL. It's pretty much impossible to do a stats screen for Puig and not have NL teams come up with him. For some reason, the post/s disappeared. Probably because if we want to start a back and forth about everyone's past assessments on players, the Gordon Beckham 2008-09 time period would be a good one and everyone could be made to look foolish without much difficulty. Even MLB GM's can often fall into that category with their "overpraise" of new acquisitions to sell them to the fanbase. If anyone on this site (including the mods) can be correct on their talent assessments more than 50% of the time, they probably should be working in an MLB front office or on Wall Street in analysis/forecasting. I am sure they appreciate it, but why do you think the mods know more than everyone else? I bet even a couple of them don't even have a high school varsity letter.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 13, 2016 -> 05:29 PM) Well, not every prediction is going to be right...and just because a player has all the tools in the world doesn't mean they're going to take advantage of them. I remember back in 1985, I must have bought 100 Eric Davis rookie cards thinking he was going to be the next Mays/Mantle. Didn't happen. By WAR, Puig's at 1.0 (and looking at around 1.5-2.5 for a full season assuming he stays healthy and continues his recent improved play). That would place him 34th out of 53 in the category (qualified number of AB's). Not nearly up to the standards of his first two seasons, but if a bunch of "Avi Garcia could do that in his sleep in RF" posts come up, it will be pretty amusing. In the context of AL MLB outfielders, 48th-51st out of 197 total players. So, if that's not a starting outfielder, I'm not sure what is. 15 AL teams 3 starters =45. 48-51 doesn't quite make it. That said, if they were willing to trade him for a meddling prospect I would do it quickly,as long as that altercation with his sister was false.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 13, 2016 -> 08:48 AM) Or they undervalued Semien and overestimated how easy the transition to the AL Central would be for a two-pitch NL pitcher. Cueto learned the hard way. He almost had a 5 ERA, now he's likely to win the Cy Young the next year. Think he got reminded again last night why he's better off in the NL West than the American League. Samardzija did pretty well in his few months in Oakland. Better than his SF numbers. And you would have traded any Sox minor leaguer not named Anderson, Montas or Hawkins for him, so you had no idea he would struggle either.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 13, 2016 -> 12:12 PM) The cost of piling up enough talent to "guarantee" 95 wins is astronomical, especially when you consider the multitude of injury/underperformance risks baked in. All to improve your playoff series odds from 5 in 10 to 6 in 10? When you still have to win three of them? It's not a total crapshoot, but it's close. And that's using ad hoc analysis on the teams that DID win 95. What about the ones that were SUPPOSED to win 95? Like the Nationals recently, for example. My point is that if you were in charge of allocating resources for an upcoming season, you'd be incredibly discouraged at the success rate of the "best team on paper" relative to the costs associated. I agree. These days you are paying for WAR. The WAR champion hasn't won the WS since 2010. Lately they have been teams in the 8-10 range.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 13, 2016 -> 09:52 AM) Gee, that was at the end of the 2014 season. SOMETHING DIFFERENT HAPPENED IN 2015....gee, I guess we shouldn't adjust our thinking in any way, shape or form as a result of new evidence, which should LOGICALLY be weighted more heavily than previous seasons. Once they are gone, there is nothing you can do about it. You basically "gave up" on the entire Sox system except for Montas, Anderson, and Hawkins. QUIT WHINING ABOUT A TRADE YOU SAID THE TEAM HAD TO MAKE. You yourself said you didn't think Semien could handle SS defensively. Still would be hesitant to throw Semien out there for 145+ games at SS and expect him to have less than 35-40 errors. I'd be okay with anyone else going, including Semien, M.Johnson or Danish. To borrow one of your lines, cue the I'd said I'd be OK because I know the White Sox would do it, but I knew all along it was dumb and not OK.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 13, 2016 -> 09:48 AM) They could have had 15-20 middle infielders under 6 years of control and it wouldn't matter one iota if none of them were major league regulars. 90-120 years of control!!! Amazing. It also doesn't explain trading Thompson when they had zero depth behind him. If all of those infielders were such quality depth, they wouldn't have had Gillaspie/Beckham there ahead of them....and then traded for Todd Frazier the following off season. Yet you would have had no qualms about including Thompson in the Samardzija trade. It's in your posts for everyone to see.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 13, 2016 -> 09:37 AM) I guess that means you wouldn't want Andrus, Aybar, Bogaerts, Escobar, Jordy Mercer, Asdrubal Cabrera, Gregorious, Brad Miller or Alexei to play SS for your team, either? http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_/po...true/order/true Eight MLB shortstops have more errors, out of 26 qualified. Bogaerts, Russell, Story, Cozart and Ahmed all have 9, along with Semien. So that puts him right around the average. First in total chances, over Lindor. First in range factor. But yeah, keep repeating the same mantra from last year that he's still terrible defensively when that case is no longer supportable by any credible evidence. Explain this I wouldn't trade Anderson, Rodon or Montas. On the fence with Hawkins (for the same reason they're holding out hope with Viciedo, POWER). I'd be okay with anyone else going, including Semien, M.Johnson or Danish. And this As everyone else has said, if the deal is Semien and pieces (Webb/Bassitt/Beck/Johnson/Davidson, etc.) then you have to do it. But not if you include Anderson, Montas and Hawkins.

Caulfied is playing black jack. He has 16. The dealer has a face card showing. Caulfied is the last player, hits and its a queen. He busts. The dealer has 12 takes his hit and gets a 7. I'm guessing he says he only said to take a hit because "the book" says to take a hit. He didn't really want to and expects to be paid on his bet.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 13, 2016 -> 09:28 AM) But how can we honestly say Semien was traded "out of depth" when none of those players were clear/sure-fire/ready-to-go replacements at either 2B or 3B? They were possibilities. Actually, you'd have to believe the White Sox valued Conor Gillaspie and Gordon Beckham more at 3B based upon their actions (or lack thereof). Isn't that also part of the reason Emilio Bonifacio was acquired, to share time at 2B and give Micah Johnson some competition (PR/outfield, 3B, etc.) We said all along that if you merged Saladino/Micah/Carlos/Leury into ONE player, then you might have a major league regular. Saladino was also coming off an injury that was going to limit him heading into 2015 (at least there was the idea he wouldn't be ready to start the season or even maybe be ready to go in May). Trey wasn't even close to the majors (he still isn't 1 1/2 years later) and Davidson had a 644 OPS in AAA, so it would have been nearly impossible to project him as a starter coming into 2015. It's a trade that was made that you said you would make at the time. The posts are all there and there are even more. You are basically now arguing with yourself.

Also it appears Caulfield himself gave up on Marcus Semien: I remember five years ago we all considered Jhonny Peralta a statue at SS and definitely a 3B/DH and he's since had a career renaissance in more ways than one. Sometimes players can and do improve defensively. Still would be hesitant to throw Semien out there for 145+ games at SS and expect him to have less than 35-40 errors.

No mention of the Sox "giving up on Semien" here. And there even is a James Shields mention. Dec 2, 2014 -> 10:39 PM Post #902 Bench Coach ************** Group: Members Posts: 43,557 Joined: March 26, 2007 Member No.: 5,243 I'm not even sure giving up what could be an elite closer in Montas for Samardzija is a good move, because you tack on $10 million in spending and you're left with only $10-15 million more for LF and the bullpen. (Of course, we'd have to spend that money anyway on a FA pitcher if we're really serious about competing.) It definitely makes the White Sox competitive in 2015. The problem is that they would still be at least two players away and mortgaging the future for a player they might at best have a 1 in 4 or 1 in 3 chance of re-signing. Seemingly, they have to target a pitcher they're going to control for a minimum of two and maximum of 4 years, as I don't think we'll see them go five years with a pitcher any time soon. (This is where a James Shields COULD make sense, but at $70-75 million for 3 years sense? Probably not.) The draft pick compensation isn't SO helpful either, because his impact might not even be felt until after that competitive window has already closed. I wouldn't trade Anderson, Rodon or Montas. On the fence with Hawkins (for the same reason they're holding out hope with Viciedo, POWER). I'd be okay with anyone else going, including Semien, M.Johnson or Danish.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 13, 2016 -> 08:50 AM) Who were their future 2B and 3B at that time? As everyone else has said, if the deal is Semien and pieces (Webb/Bassitt/Beck/Johnson/Davidson, etc.) then you have to do it. But not if you include Anderson, Montas and Hawkins. Then the White Sox would be left scrambling at 2B and/or the RH complement to Gillaspie. Would they sign another player for one year or do they gamble that Micah Johnson's ready? Do they truly believe Sanchez can be close to league average at 2B if they deem Johnson not ready until at least mid-season? This post has been edited by caulfield12: Dec 8, 2014 -> 08:57 PM

Smolts has to stop the "our game" lime.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 12, 2016 -> 08:39 PM) When have you gone out and staked a position on a player? It's easy to question others when you so rarely do that. Ubaldo Jimenez? Gordon Beckham? John Danks? Do I really need to write that "everyone knows how the White Sox operate when it comes to young players, that it's clear they have given up on Marcus Semien as an everyday player and might as well get something of value back for him?" Once again, should every thread be bifurcated into 1) our own personal thoughts about a player or trade, 2) our anticipation of what the White Sox will actually do, 3) our own idea if we were running the White Sox, what they SHOULD or SHOULDN'T DO? Those are not necessarily mutually exclusive concepts. In the end, I'll leave it up to "SoxTalk" land to make their own appraisals. None of us are being paid by the White Sox to make these decisions, anyway, so it doesn't really matter, does it? It's just for fun and entertainment. If you think about ALL the time you've wasted trying to convince everyone that I'm this or that...wouldn't your energies have better been applied to "growing the White Sox fanbase" in Chicago by sponsoring an RBI or Jackie Robinson League team so that all those kids ended up cheering for the Sox in the future? Are you really going to change the minds of Balta, Greg775, Flash Tizzle, Thad Bosley, GreenSox or ANYONE else? For the record, thanks in advance for your time and consideration in spending an inordinate amount of time delving into every single post someone has made!!! Flattering, in a way. Impressive diligence in your quest for righteousness. I'll leave it like this. The current and prevailing message board defense of almost any move made by the Sox was "that it made sense or was logical enough at the time." If JR wants to support that type of thinking and ignore the team's record or lack of playoff appearances, that's really great. LOYAL. If he wants to end up with 18-21,000 fans per game despite never doing a total rebuild, and STILL having the worst TV ratings in all of MLB despite starting the season 23-10, he's more than welcome to enjoy that, since his team will still be worth $1 billion or more anyway, no matter how badly they mess things up. Just quit contradicting yourself. if you thought a move was good without hindsight, there is no need to hammer it endlessly if it doesn't work out. If a trade had to be made, your words, then if it doesn't work out accept you were wrong as well. If signings like Paulino are what business the Sox should be in don't work out, don't blast Hahn 2 years later and act like you never stated that. If you really think Jake Peavy is a bum, when he re-signs, don't call it good news and write it frees up guys like Quintana to be traded for a 3B. Just like with Desmond who you said sign in June and then tried to hide behind the Hahn would never give up the draft pick so you are just trying to be realistic, just be honest and admit it. Besides you put it in with give Latos $10 million and Parra $8 million. 2 things Hahn would do either.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 12, 2016 -> 06:42 PM) You just had a couple of mods in this very same sequence of posts say the organization had clearly given up on him. It's not just me. It's what the White Sox ALWAYS do. The same thing happened with Daniel Hudson after 3 starts. Micah Johnson got about 3 weeks. Carlos Sanchez got about half a season as well, despite being only 22 or 23. They give up on players too quickly or they play them 1-2 seasons too long when they can't believe they were so wrong in their talent evaluation (Beckham, Viciedo, Flowers, Avi Garcia). Somewhere in there is a middle ground that they can't seem to find, a sweet spot, where patience has to be met with results. Marcus Semien had 300 career at-bats with the White Sox. That's essentially half a season. And then they decided he wasn't going to make it. So what's the point of not trading him at that point? They weren't willing to play him everyday, even though that's exactly what rebuilding teams do. That's exactly what Billy Beane did (see below). http://m.mlb.com/news/article/188565220/as...lays-every-day/ But thanks for playing, Dick "Stalker" Allen Show me a post in the Shark trade thread where you said they have clearly given up on him? A year and a half later you are using it . I copy and pasted your no hindsight post . You are lying. You have to give up something to get something. The White Sox had not given up on Semien. For you to use a line that was written today for what you where really thinking in December of 2014 is preposterous. Not a stalker, just going to call you out for all of your lies. There are a lot more. We have Peavy, Semeienand you would have included any minor leaguer not named Momtas, Anderson or Hawkins. Ther was the blasting of The Paulino signing, where you said the move made too much sense. The White Sox should be in the business of more signings of the like You are a total BSer. Just admit once in a while you also had it wrong. It seemed to make sense to you at the time but for some reason it didn't work out instead of what kind of idiot makes a trade like this? Apparently someone like you. You don't want to read the Shark trade thread. Your new lie would be totally exposed, plus your lack of hindsight determined Hahn and KW would be kings of Chicago if they could acquire Matt Kemp. Don't complain about Avi getting time then Caulfraud.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 12, 2016 -> 06:31 PM) It's more the fact that we were rebuilding and everything was going along fine until the 2014-15 offseason approached. Then they got impatient and tried to rush forward, in the back of their minds certainly being aware they wouldn't have the financial resources to sustain an "all in" year unless EVERY MOVE THEY MADE TURNED OUT PERFECTLY. While we might not be much better off record-wise, an infield of Semien at 3B/2B, Anderson at SS, Thompson in CF, Montas still in the system (and Saladino as super-sub/Zobrist lite rotating around at different positions)...that would be a lot more exciting to watch and have potential for future improvement. Also, a lot more athleticism. Between Montas, Hansen, Fulmer, Adams and Jordan Stephens, we'd have enough pieces to fill the bullpen needs and back of the starting rotation. That team would also be much more affordable/cost-effective, providing payroll space for other fixes like the DH issue with Avi Garcia. And yeah, I did say they pretty much needed to trade Semien because it was clear the organization had already given up on him and he wasn't likely to get another shot...so why not try to turn him into an asset to fill another need? It's not like any of us here can go out and hire individual coaches and bring them to USCF and force them on the White Sox front office to fix their own development and lack of patience with young player issues...(of course, for some reason, they fixate on other guys like Beckham, Flowers and Viciedo and give them way too much time, with Avi Garcia being the most currently example of that phenomenon.) No. You said it was a trade that had to be made, and it wasn't clear the organization had given up on him. Nice spin. But a total lie. If trading good players for prospects requires said prospects to be guys their organization has given up on, it would be another reason a total rebuild makes no sense.