Dick Allen

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Oct 3, 2015 -> 04:29 PM) Francona is a WS winning manager. Robin has won jack s***. You can have more patience with Francona. Francona's first 4 years as a manager 68-94 75-87 77-85 65-97 Why would anyone ver give him another job?

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Oct 3, 2015 -> 02:12 PM) Does it matter where the baseball writers predict they will finish? Does it matter that some picked this team to win the division? Francona needs to be fired. SI had them winning the WS.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 3, 2015 -> 11:38 AM) Taylor: To the best of my knowledge I have never said the Sox are deliberately trying to lose. Now THAT's insane. I have said in the past "money matters more than Championships" to them. And that's probably not true anymore either not with the gigantic sums of money coming into MLB at all levels. Probably the best description of the organization right now I've heard comes from others, "stale, set in their ways, refuse to change just about anything." And the bottom line is this, results speak for themselves. The Sox are in a bad position right now in all areas save for financially. Mark Any neagative totally insane White Sox thing you "hear" you run with. Just yesterday the Parent deliberately doing his job poorly to get Ventura's job is INSANE. Who does their job poorly in order to get their boss fired and get them moved into that role? Stale, set in their ways, seems to refer to your posts.

If you really think RV is the reason the Sox aren't a playoff team, you need to get off the Sox will suck for the foreseeable future and have so many holes train.

QUOTE (VAfan @ Oct 3, 2015 -> 10:23 AM) As Caulfield said, there weren't any great players on those Giants teams other than Buster Posey and Baumgartner. I mean they won the World Series with our castoff starter Jake Peavy in the #2 hole!! How many great.players have been on the White Sox the last 4 years? You confirmed my point. A manager can't make junk a playoff team.

QUOTE (VAfan @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 09:21 PM) Disgusted. As I wrote elsewhere, managers should be assigned WAR. If they were, I'd give Ventura a -5 to -8 range. Just pulling that out of a hat. But I think there is no question managers make a difference. And it starts with whether the team plays good fundamental baseball. Do they field well, or as well as they could give their talent? Do they run the bases well? Do they move runners over? Bunt if called upon? If they dont, this is a managerial problem. Anyone think the Giants win the World Series without Bochy? Any of the 3 they just won? Managers also make in game decisions that win and lose games. Ventura is not good here either. They set lineups, decide who sits, etc. Ultimately, how can Ventura hold any player accountable when he hasn't been held accountable himself?? Another wasted year coming up. Sox could be better, but there is no way they will overcome the anchor that Ventura is for the team. I don't live in Chicago, but I'm not going to see them when they come to DC or Baltimore. And it's hard for me because I have a 12 year old son who loves baseball. Bochy managed teams have lost at least 86 games 8 times. His first 2 seasons in SF, they lost over 90 each time. Now he is a genius. Funny how a better roster works. Go check out Joe Torre and Booby Cox records when they didn't have good players. Even Joe Maddon's.

You look at the package Boston supposedly offered for King Felix. If the Sox got the same players for Sale, they have weakened their team. Yeah, you might not win keepimg Sale, but to think you would win trading him isn't logical. If the goal is to get an immediate boost in your farm system ranking, or you plan to suck for a few years, trade him. If you want to win games, and have the guy who starts game 1 of every playoff series on the roster, you keep him. With the contract he has, to pick up his production somewhere else, it would cost a fortune.

QUOTE (LDF @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 07:34 PM) but it was said many times he never wanted to be a team manager. By people who have never met him and never heard him say it.

Soxfest ahead of last years ticket pace.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 07:42 PM) Since your not blaming Robin and think managers have little to do with the game, I'm assuming your blaming KW and or Hahn for this crapfest? I asked another guy if he thought this White Sox team makes the playoffs if managed byway he considers to be the best manager in baseball. He said probably not. Almost 97% of teams don't have the best manager in baseball, so if the best one doesn't make them a playoff team, he rest probably don't either. Maybe you think this team is a playoff team with a manager you consider good The fact is so many posters post th Sox are so far from contending, have so many holes, blaming the manager for not making the playoffs is beyond silly. You cannot manage incompetence to victory in professional sports. So yes, thus far KW and RH have failed. As much as Hahn is loved around here if you look at his transactions, his percentage of deals he would still do in hindsight are very few. He has had some great extensions which offsets that a bit. But right now, the jury is out on RH IMO. I am not a KW fan but I don't subscribe to the good moves-Hahn, bad moves-KW theme. If Hahn is the GM by title only, he needs to grow a pair and resign.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 07:18 PM) Once he was let go by the White Sox, Tony LaRussa never went more than 3 straight seasons without a playoff appearance. And when the talent level dropped in Oakland, it became apparent, Tony wasn't the reason they were winning. He also won a WS winning 83 games. That isn't going to happen much.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 03:35 PM) His point is that things can change fast in baseball, and he's right. Hell over half of the teams in baseball this year will have a 10+ swing in wins in either direction from 2014. Who saw the 1977 Southside Hitmen coming? Who saw the 1990 or 2000 teams coming? 2 years after the White Sox White Flagged it and had to wear a Scarlett letter for eternity, they were back in the playoffs. The Sox have some really good parts, and some parts who played like crap but a bounce back shouldn't be out of the question. More additions, a couple of hitters, someone who can catch the ball, and they are contending. I think most that could go wrong, went wrong this year. You make your own breaks, but that should start evening out next season. It doesn't have to be a blistering start but a decent start could keep the pressure off everyone from trying to do too much. The defense stared out horrible, but has improved. Missed cut offs appear a thing of the past. Guys actually get thrown out now. If they could find a 3B who can hit and catch, that would be sweet. I don't think they will give up on Avi yet, but might if a guy like Puig could be had. (Not for Avi,I am not a clueless Cubs fan). Say the did add Puig and Longoria, lost Q, Longoria's contract probably means Saldino is playing SS. I don't know what the price woul be for Puig, but it sure did seem the Dodgers are at least thinking about dumping him. I wonder what their scouts think of Trayce. I think LaRoche can bounce back a bit. There is no way he got that bad that fast.

QUOTE (Tannerfan @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 06:28 PM) I think the big concern for me is retaining Ventura makes me feel we have officially entered into the Jerry Reinsdorf as an elderly out of touch owner phase ala Al Davis. These guys get to the point where the times have passed them by but they think they are still sharp as tacks and in control. My thing with Reinsdorf is I've always felt his top priority was making money for his partners. Sort of like the character Hyman Roth in Godfather II. Winning and White Sox fans are 2nd and 3rd behind the partners. But now I think age and what not have settled him into the older man place of not wanting a lot of hassles in his life. Fire Robin? But then we have to find somebody else and negotiate a deal and he has to meet everybody and gee maybe it's better just to give the guy a little more time. Change radio announcers? Gosh that sounds like a lot of work, let's just keep the guys we've got. How about on the TV side? Mr Country Catch Phrase is going to be back I betcha. The downward spiral has probably only just begun for the White Sox. God I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am. Tanner fan? Do you know Chuck Tanner has the major league record for consecutive last place finishes by a manager? It's true. I don't know what really is going on in JR's mind, I don't think any of us do. I do think he has been running his businesses successfully most of his life, and feels a responsibility to his shareholders to maintain top business practices. If anything, he seems to be taking more chances lately. Before he signed Adam Dunn after 2010, he hadn't signed another team's free agent for more than $20 million total since Albert Belle. I find the notion that JR doesn't know what he is doing, or doesn't care or want to make the effort to get better preposterous. The only thing I have noticed is he seems more than little cranky the past couple of years. Stories about him with the Bulls and Manfred's election. I wonder how much losing his son has affected him. I would imagine more than we will ever know, or want to know.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 06:23 PM) Are the baseball players responsible for anything? Yes. They are assholes when they won't sign things on the sweet spot. That's about it.

QUOTE (harkness @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 06:06 PM) I agree with a lot of what you said. They tried getting new players and it was all the same. I don't think he deservers to be or should be back. Whoever you think is the best manager in baseball, if they managed the 2015 White Sox, do you think they are a playoff team?

QUOTE (harkness @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 05:47 PM) Simple Question Dick. Why do you love Robin so much? There are pretty clear reasons as to why people have a problem (losing) But regardless why you defend him with such vigor. Why? Really not that huge of a fan. I like him, but I think problems are fixed by targeting the problems. Firing Robin doesn't make the White Sox a better baseball team. It might appease the people frothing at the mouth, but every loss isn't on him. People act like if the Sox had someone they would consider "competent" we will throw out Dave Martinez who nobody here knows, nobody here has any idea why he keeps getting turned away, even in TB, but thinks he will be a great manager because when he watches games. He sits next to Joe Maddon, this team apparently would be playoff contenders the last 4 years. I am not the one being illogical.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 05:33 PM) Whatever ... I hope Robin changes a bit. Obviously talent is the biggest thing for a manager. But his teams simply cannot lay down a bunt (reflects poorly on him), they do not play defense, they cannot move runners, they cannot score runners. He does a decent enough job with pitchers (maybe Coop takes care of that). Now maybe it's 100 percent on his players. Who knows? But Robin's teams APPEAR very undisciplined, very fundamentally unsound. He deserves a D for this season, C- at best but I'd give him a D. This kind of bothers me? It isn't a major league manager's job to teach players how to bunt or catch or throw. Just think of last January when the Sox hired Vince Coleman. I was at the Soxfest seminar when Hahn broke that news and it was met with applause. The base running problems are ova! They get to spring training. Every day the local news show Vince putting these players through drills and interviewing him about his philosophy. All these guys are going to get better jumps, they are all going to steal a ton of bases. They are going to be taking extra bases, no more station to station. Then, reality hits. The season starts. No one can steal a base. Everyone make poor decisions on the base paths, so much so you want even the fast guys to go station to station. In the end, sometimes you are what you are. Some players just aren't going to be good fielders. Some won't ever hit. Some will always be boneheaded on the bases, and a few will take a little from that work and become most likely, slightly better. I have yet to see a saber metric stat for coaching factor. Maybe that is in the works, but I doubt it. I am sure there have been guys that became great that wouldn't have been great because of a major league coach or manager. But there are very few.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 04:06 PM) I thought they kind of created that job for him anyway - not sure they would have another one, exactly. The assistant hitting coach is becoming more common. There was someone who was doing it before Harold but he had a Video title. Mike Gellinger. I am going out on a limb and thinking they want a guy like Ibanez who can speak Spanish almost for Avi alone. Ibanez didn't become productive until he was close to 30.maybe he can get through to him. I think the panic about Avi has started,

That seems like the Ibanez position. If he says no you could just move Harold's statue into the dugout and remain status quo.

I think Parent moving on is more about convenience than a jab at his job performance. His was the only contract running out. I also think the previous manager stuff for the bench coach is not to replace Robin, at least full time. Maybe as an interim, but it lets the White Sox select another guy with little experience if they ever do pull the trigger. So you can get a guy and sign him to a multi year contract. You really can't sign Parent to a multi year contract if you bring him back.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 02:39 PM) ah yes the collusion era when they refused to sign any free agents. followed a few years later by the owner lockout that maybe cost us another playoff. 1995 that was Sabo and Kruk and Bevington disaster 1996 they signed Tony Phillips and traded for Tartabull. One thing Schueler was pretty good at was picking up RFs for one season. 1997 Albert Belle Era begins 1998 Albert Belle Era ends and White Flag 1999 Rebuilding 2000 AL Central Champs. Just one year before Jerry Manuel became an idiot.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 02:07 PM) Apparently, there was substantial friction between Hoiberg and his program, and the ISU Athletic department as a whole. I have always appreciated that Iowa State doesn't bend as far as other significant DI programs on academics (though they still bend), but the nickel and diming for the department's biggest money-make seems awfully petty. Makes it less surprising Hoiberg left, though he may have anyway. Also not encouraging for the program's continued success. I think there was a lot of fiction in the story. Hoiberg replied yesterday he had the utmost respect for the AD.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 02:22 PM) .......and they immediately fell into baseball oblivion for the next 7 years or so. Not immediately but it did happen when they did the Cubs model total rebuild. You know the rebuild so many are clamouring for? They have a far better small core now though than back in 1980.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 02:03 PM) Just wondering. Who is Jeff Sullivan? Mark Fangraphs . Obviously a know nothing if he thinks the White Sox can even be average in 5 years as long as Jerry Reinsdorf is around. http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/1980.shtml Check out that roster. That was what JR inherited when he bought the team. Less than 3 years later, they almost won it all. It is amazing how hopeless people want to make this current situation.

QUOTE (flavum @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 11:58 AM) Familiar in that they're about the same age and in the baseball industry. Man, you can nitpick anything. You are the one who told us they had no direct ties. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-10...ouble-a-reading