Dick Allen

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Oct 16, 2015 -> 11:54 AM) Oh I absolutely want Puig. This fanbase needs a flashy player. If nothing else to generate some interest. Plus he's a good player and we could use him. I agree. He's young, not too expensive, talented as can be, and the Sox could market the crap out of him. He has his issues without a doubt, so some sort of support would need to be either there or created.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Oct 16, 2015 -> 08:50 AM) Murphy's track record is a lot more extensive than Conor Gillaspie's, I don't think they're comparable at all. If the amounts being thrown around in this thread are true, though, he wouldn't be a smart pickup. I'll pass on Frazier too. People are underestimating what it would take to get him. I'm not comparing them per se. Only the 2014 version of Gillaspie. Murphy is awful in the field. 14 homers is a career high. I could see a .730 OPS with awful defense pretty easily. If he were just average with the glove, it would be one thing, but he's known to be really bad.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Oct 16, 2015 -> 08:01 AM) . That's what the metrics say. But I don't trust defensive metrics. The jump around from year to year. I get that for offense, obciously, but not defense. Lacks range. 2 years left on the deal. I fully expect the Sox to pile up some imperfect prospects to get a guy like him, just like they did last year. And somehow the team will find a way to get output out of those guys while the Sox can't. Sox didn't get any better when they dumped Micah from second. Coopers pitcher stats got better. The team didn't. They jump around, but he's been positive with them the last 3 years. Eventually, he will probably be bad, but to say he is a bad defender now isn't accurate. He has been over a 4 WAR player the last couple of years. The contract isn't a problem. Extending him reasonably might, but IMO, the problem is he is going to cost a lot to get. I think some of the suggestions of his cost are more than a bit low. It seems we are in an era where if you have an average 3B and average C, you are ahead of most.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Oct 16, 2015 -> 07:41 AM) Todd Frazier and his 2nd half c .650 OPS and bad defense? Wouldn't surprise me at all if the Sox load up the prospects for him. I mean he almost won home run derby! He is actually a pretty good defender.

Murphy has been a good hitter, and the playoffs probably will make him some money, but do you really want to pay a guy that much money for several years in his 30's who is probably the 2014 edition of Conor Gillaspie ?

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 06:44 PM) Lol - oh, c'mon. What are you doing here. You are twisting words left and right. First you say I said " the only way a season could be exciting is if the Sox won the WS", and then you clarify that by saying that I said the Sox " have had 1 exciting season in 35 years". You do realize that's two completely different statements, don't you? The first is, as I already mentioned, something I've never, ever said. I've never said that the only way a season could be exciting is if the Sox won the WS. Never, ever, and I'll eat my hat if you can go back and find a quote where I said such a dumb thing. (Don't worry, dear Hat of mine - you are in no danger!) As for the second quote about the one good season in the past 35, under the Reinsdorf regime, I certainly did assert that there has only been one truly exciting season during Reinsdorf's horrific reign as owner, that of course being '05. The other 34 years - only four playoff appearances with only four playoff wins among all four. That's not very exciting at all, now is it. Obviously there was excitement in the anticipation leading up to those playoff appearances, but those were quickly squashed by the results (particularly the 0-3 sweep by the Mariners in '00 and the 1-3 quick in & out against the Rays in '08). I could soften my stance a little bit, I guess, and say '83 was exciting, since it was the first trip to the postseason in 24 years at that point, even if we were outscored 18-1 in those final three games. But all in all, '05 was truly the only showing worthy of note during the past 35 years. No doubt about it! Finally, the only one really "whining", "moaning", and/or "complaining" around here is you, ironically enough. Seems to be your go-to option when you can't argue a point that you want to. If you don't agree with someone's criticism of Reinsdorf, or Williams, or whatever, just say it. Provide evidence or suggestions to the contrary. But don't throw down with the weak name calling. That's not interesting in any aspect. You think this years teams making their league championship series are exciting, yet when the White Sox made their league championship series in 1983, 1993, not exciting. I guess the difference is I can watch something and immediately enjoy it. Apparently you need 6 months and final results to see if you enjoyed it or not. Not surprising. Too bad the Rangers season could have been exciting, but 3 consecutive errors ruined everything, therefore a dull season.

Arietta not starting game one even though it would be his regular rest. Makes you think he might be having some shoulder or elbow issues.

Grandal 5 for his last 93. That is really unbelievable.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 05:45 PM) Based on? I mean I don't think he's smart, but why the "bad dude" opinion? 5 year $95 million contract with the Bulls. 13 year $185 million contract with Adidas. There is no question his IQ isn't very high. I don't think he is a bad dude, but when he mentions free agency 2 years away as a means to get his family financial stable, he is being fed things by a bad dude. Reggie Rose did a great job keeping his little brother out of trouble and danger, no one can say otherwise. But he is also a well known asshole who apparently is all about getting every last dollar. If $280 million plus whatever he made befor these contracts isn't enough for him and several generations of Roses to be able to consider themselves financially stable, he needs a new financial advisor.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 06:44 PM) Lol - oh, c'mon. What are you doing here. You are twisting words left and right. First you say I said " the only way a season could be exciting is if the Sox won the WS", and then you clarify that by saying that I said the Sox " have had 1 exciting season in 35 years". You do realize that's two completely different statements, don't you? The first is, as I already mentioned, something I've never, ever said. I've never said that the only way a season could be exciting is if the Sox won the WS. Never, ever, and I'll eat my hat if you can go back and find a quote where I said such a dumb thing. (Don't worry, dear Hat of mine - you are in no danger!) As for the second quote about the one good season in the past 35, under the Reinsdorf regime, I certainly did assert that there has only been one truly exciting season during Reinsdorf's horrific reign as owner, that of course being '05. The other 34 years - only four playoff appearances with only four playoff wins among all four. That's not very exciting at all, now is it. Obviously there was excitement in the anticipation leading up to those playoff appearances, but those were quickly squashed by the results (particularly the 0-3 sweep by the Mariners in '00 and the 1-3 quick in & out against the Rays in '08). I could soften my stance a little bit, I guess, and say '83 was exciting, since it was the first trip to the postseason in 24 years at that point, even if we were outscored 18-1 in those final three games. But all in all, '05 was truly the only showing worthy of note during the past 35 years. No doubt about it! Finally, the only one really "whining", "moaning", and/or "complaining" around here is you, ironically enough. Seems to be your go-to option when you can't argue a point that you want to. If you don't agree with someone's criticism of Reinsdorf, or Williams, or whatever, just say it. Provide evidence or suggestions to the contrary. But don't throw down with the weak name calling. That's not interesting in any aspect. You have made my point. You can't tell if a season is exciting or not until the playoffs are over. Too bad you missed out on some fun times. 1983, 1990,1993, 1994 until the strike, 2000, 2006 was fun for a good while, 2008, the Blackout game was a joy, 2010 when they had a really hot stretch. There were some good times in other seasons as well. 2012 being in first place unexpectedly most of the season, 2003 first place in the middle of September, 2004, a great team until Maggs and The Big Hurt went down, too bad you didn't find those exciting. But keep on mentioning those 35 years. Start another thread about how you are going to choose a new team, then post the same tired post the next 6 months about JR and his 35 year reign of terror.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 06:14 PM) That would be a complete falsehood, Kind Sir. I have never, ever said anything of the sort. This is the second time you've accused me of saying something I didn't, most recently some silliness about me once saying I was going to take my business to the north side of town. That, too, gets filed in the "I have never, ever" category. You ought to really be sure of what you are saying before you say it. This is starting to get a bit reckless on your part. Just sayin'! Yes you did. You said they have had 1 exciting season in 35 years. And you have said you were going to give up your fan card. I guess you find whining about JR more attractive than rooting for a winning team.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 06:04 PM) I'll take Option C, which you didn't offer up but I'm taking it anyway, which is to have that wonderful WS championship experience of '05, AND take advantage of the new playoff system of recent years and maybe have had 2-3 more playoff appearances since '05 as well. Now I'm not greedy, mind you - I'm not saying I expected 2-3 more WS championships. That would, of course, be silly. But just step into that postseason more frequently than we have so we can have some freakin' FUN, for chrissakes. It is NOT fun to have to watch as many meaningless games in our empty ballpark in September and then NONE in October like we've had to do for practically the last decade. So it's not an either/or proposition, the Sox' experience of the past decade vs. that of the Tigers. I'll take the '05 experience, with just a little more white sock waving opportunities in October than we've been provided in the last decade. I don't think that's too much to ask! Says the guy who once posted the only way a season could be exciting is if the Sox won the WS.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 03:05 PM) I'm inclined to agree, I think people overrate titles, especially in a sport as random as baseball. The Tigers/White Sox question is a good one, and since we've been so starved for baseball championships in this city people would lean towards the title, but in most cases I'd lean towards the Tigers here. For another example, in my opinion the Braves making the playoffs 14 years in a row and only having 1 title to show for it >>>>>>>> Marlins winning 2 titles randomly and sucking the rest of the time. But the question included, you know you weren't going to win. I understand multiple playoff appearances. I get that, but if you get swept out of the first round, or you're like the Pirates and make it 3 times in a row but lose 3-2 the first time and the 2 WC games the next time, isn't a title and a 90 win, and 85 win and 88 win season with no playoffs, and another playoff appearance bowing out in 4 games, far better? I think the whiners have taken over and pretty much are starting to brainwash everyone into think the White Sox have lost 100 games a year the last decade. They have had 4 or 5 decent seasons. Sure, the past 3 have been difficult, but they seem to be on a better track. A lot of stuff went wrong this past year. I love that they aren't blaming the manager. Blaming players is the fastest way to get things to change.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 02:53 PM) How about I choose both? A WS win and a sustained run of success? This WS title is gonna end up being a curse to the franchise with fans thinking like you. If winning a WS is a curse, I'll take the curse. As I pointed out, in a couple of weeks, there still will be 23 teams that haven't won a WS since the White Sox did.

QUOTE (gatnom @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 02:39 PM) You ignored the rest of my post, but that's ok. I don't disagree that more money is a good thing. I just realize they already have more than enough to be a good franchise. It depends. Money changes the way you operate. Andrew Friedman seems to be a different type of deal maker with the Dodgers than he was with the Rays. He can throw money everywhere and if it doesn't work out, no big deal. I think the biggest advantage with money vs. small market is not necessarily being able to sign the $200 million guys. IMO, it is the ability to hang on to your guys. The teams in perpetual rebuilding develop guys, then they get good so they can't pay them, so they are traded and they have to start the cycle again. That's why I don't understand the people complaining about it being 7 years since the Sox were last in the playoffs, so trade Chris Sale. That suggests waiting another 7.

QUOTE (LDF @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 02:28 PM) the WS win.... So this regime is at least better than Detroit's . Since the White Sox last won the WS, the only other organizations to win the WS are: Boston St. Louis San Francisco NY Yankees Philadelphia 24 other organizations have a WS title drought longer than the White Sox. It will be 23 in a few weeks.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 02:17 PM) It may be unrealistic to "expect" the owner to sell (sadly enough), but it's certainly not unrealistic to "want" him to sell, because believe you me, we need the "post Reinsdorf" era to begin sooner rather than later. 35 years of this ownership, whether you look at the last ten years, the first ten years, or whatever - enough is enough! The organization needs a bold new strategy and vision, because what's been in place is not working, and I don't think after 35 years that Mr. Reinsdorf is capable at this point of doing anything much differently than what he has been doing. Maybe I'm wrong, and if he cares to prove me wrong, I'm certainly open to it, but I don't see that happening. As for your second comment about needing to win vs. just finding baseball "worth watching", well, we have been watching, at least the people who frequent this site. We've been watching for a long time now. Despite the less-than-desirable product we've been presented with for quite some time, we still find it worth watching. Why? Because through it all, we remain Sox fans, through and through. So we are watching. Now the question is, is it too much to ask to sprinkle in a little more winning than has been the case for the past ten years? Is it too much to ask for the opportunity to wave "white socks" like a crazy person at U.S. Cellular Field in mid-October, cheering madly for the team we love, at least more frequently than one or two games per decade? That is the ask here. For those who find this request some form of "whining" or "complaining" or "moaning" or whatever, so be it. Call it what you want. But that's what true White Sox fans crave for their ballclub - success! And by golly, we are not going to stop talking about it until we get it!! If in October of 2005, you had the choice of the White Sox winning the WS and having the next decade go like it has gone, or losing the WS and duplicating the Tigers since then with a WS appearance, and plenty of playoff appearances, but no wins, what do you choose?

Is anyone else as sick of Eddie Vedder as I am?

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 11:08 AM) As a throw in as part of a larger deal depending on what the pieces are. Mark 2014 AA-AAA .316/.376/.467 2015 AAA .315/.377/.464 b**** and moan the Sox can't develop hitters, then get this guy who does that and runs like the wind, and use him as a "throw in". Yeah, that makes sense.

QUOTE (MindGame2004 @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 11:16 AM) That's what it boils down to. Parent and Baines gone, but look, we're changing things up! What's sad is there is a portion of the fanbase they're fooling in doing so, but I think the majority of us know it is nothing more than scapegoating, as you said. They are changing things up. They aren't trying to fool anyone. What they need really is not a better bench coach or assistant hitting coach, they need better players.

QUOTE (MindGame2004 @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 11:22 AM) Tim Anderson's K to BB rate for AA is alarming when you project him to the Majors. I know he's new to baseball, and the Sox like those type of toolsy athlete types, but I have reservations as to Anderson being all he can be in the Majors. 114 K to 24 walks. 125 games played. He doesn't have the power to hit like that either. If they trade him, what would they get back is the real question. What would it matter if he isn't going to be anything anyway?

QUOTE (MindGame2004 @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 10:33 AM) So yeah, what would Sale get? Exactly my point. Look at the list of prospects Boston offered Seattle for King Felix, and gave them their choice of 5. While Seattle hasn't won anything since, they were far better off saying no. I don't understand why people want to get rid of stars for prospects. You must love when the Sox lose.

QUOTE (MindGame2004 @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 10:44 AM) Great question. The Jerry loyalty clause? McEwing came up from Charlotte, no? I don't have an answer. Why was Parent expendable other than not being able to speak Spanish? They couldn't find another role for him in the organization? Did he want one? All great questions. I liked the Steverson hire when they made it. Based on the results, either he's bad at his job or they don't listen to him. They're not blaming him for the lack of getting on base, so it if isn't his fault, whose is it? If the players are professional and not accountable for their production why do you pay a hitting coach? Again, great question. No idea why he's still here. Whoever becomes manager, you get Don Cooper. I don't have an answer for that either. I know that Jeff Samardzija wasn't great but also wasn't as bad until he started throwing under Cooper. It doesn't really matter who they hire as manager. If he can't bring in his own guys and has to keep Cooper, it matters little. The point is Jerry loves his kids. We know this. The organization needs a serious cleansing from top to bottom. If we're going to live off of one championship that was ten years ago, cool. Bring in people who know what they're doing so we can win more. There are people all over the game that know the information, how to use it and can at least attempt to put the team in position to be good and stay good. We're seeing nothing but business as usual to this point. Look outside of your own circle and actually interview people for these jobs. What it shows you is he wasn't fired because he didn't play for the White Sox. It shows you he isn't coming back because it was convenient to let go of the guy who didn't have a contract for next year. If he had one and McEwing or Steverson didn't, one of those guys would have been launched. I think though, they anticipated a possibility of a needed scapegoat years ago, and had the bench coach's contract expire earlier than the others.

QUOTE (MindGame2004 @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 09:25 AM) I realize that, but it doesn't mean he was less expendable. Harold Baines got to "step down" and take some bulls*** ambassador role or something, right? Parent? Gone. Theo hiring Jed in the front office is one thing. The whole reason they're there in the first place was due to an ownership change. My saving thought with Alomar is he was more Cleveland than Chicago and played there when they were winning. That supersedes his White Sox tenure. Joe McEwing never played for the White Sox. Todd Steverson never played for the White Sox. Don Cooper never played for the White Sox. Why weren't they fired?

QUOTE (MindGame2004 @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 09:19 AM) They have to ask themselves who their assets are. I would say Abreu, Sale, Quintana and Rodon. They have to decide are they closer to a World Series with these guys or will they get closer by trading any of them to get assets in return? Their farm system is weak, let's be honest. Tim Anderson is the prize and is K to BB rate in AA doesn't translate well to the Majors. He's another toolsy athlete they want to transform into a baseball player. We know how that story ends, Sox fans. The only guy I see them moving is Quintana, and that's only because Hahn said a few months ago they will need to trade a position of strength to help in areas of weakness. They have some good, young pitching with friendly contracts. They have no infielders who can hit. Quintana is the odd man out. They won't trade Sale, Abreu or Rodon. Quintana will get you a good return, but he won't reboot your system the way Sale would. Look at what the Cubs got for Garza and what the Phillies got for Hamels. Chris Sale would yield a bounty of young prospects that could get you going again. You need not an ace pitcher when you're losing 90 games a year. They've wasted all Sale has done by being incredibly poor around him. Garza netted the Cubs Justin Grimm, Carl Edwards and Mike Olt. Not exactly earthshattering or franchise changing. He also cost them Chris Archer.