Dick Allen

QUOTE (Tannerfan @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 06:28 PM) I think the big concern for me is retaining Ventura makes me feel we have officially entered into the Jerry Reinsdorf as an elderly out of touch owner phase ala Al Davis. These guys get to the point where the times have passed them by but they think they are still sharp as tacks and in control. My thing with Reinsdorf is I've always felt his top priority was making money for his partners. Sort of like the character Hyman Roth in Godfather II. Winning and White Sox fans are 2nd and 3rd behind the partners. But now I think age and what not have settled him into the older man place of not wanting a lot of hassles in his life. Fire Robin? But then we have to find somebody else and negotiate a deal and he has to meet everybody and gee maybe it's better just to give the guy a little more time. Change radio announcers? Gosh that sounds like a lot of work, let's just keep the guys we've got. How about on the TV side? Mr Country Catch Phrase is going to be back I betcha. The downward spiral has probably only just begun for the White Sox. God I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am. Tanner fan? Do you know Chuck Tanner has the major league record for consecutive last place finishes by a manager? It's true. I don't know what really is going on in JR's mind, I don't think any of us do. I do think he has been running his businesses successfully most of his life, and feels a responsibility to his shareholders to maintain top business practices. If anything, he seems to be taking more chances lately. Before he signed Adam Dunn after 2010, he hadn't signed another team's free agent for more than $20 million total since Albert Belle. I find the notion that JR doesn't know what he is doing, or doesn't care or want to make the effort to get better preposterous. The only thing I have noticed is he seems more than little cranky the past couple of years. Stories about him with the Bulls and Manfred's election. I wonder how much losing his son has affected him. I would imagine more than we will ever know, or want to know.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 06:23 PM) Are the baseball players responsible for anything? Yes. They are assholes when they won't sign things on the sweet spot. That's about it.

QUOTE (harkness @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 06:06 PM) I agree with a lot of what you said. They tried getting new players and it was all the same. I don't think he deservers to be or should be back. Whoever you think is the best manager in baseball, if they managed the 2015 White Sox, do you think they are a playoff team?

QUOTE (harkness @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 05:47 PM) Simple Question Dick. Why do you love Robin so much? There are pretty clear reasons as to why people have a problem (losing) But regardless why you defend him with such vigor. Why? Really not that huge of a fan. I like him, but I think problems are fixed by targeting the problems. Firing Robin doesn't make the White Sox a better baseball team. It might appease the people frothing at the mouth, but every loss isn't on him. People act like if the Sox had someone they would consider "competent" we will throw out Dave Martinez who nobody here knows, nobody here has any idea why he keeps getting turned away, even in TB, but thinks he will be a great manager because when he watches games. He sits next to Joe Maddon, this team apparently would be playoff contenders the last 4 years. I am not the one being illogical.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 05:33 PM) Whatever ... I hope Robin changes a bit. Obviously talent is the biggest thing for a manager. But his teams simply cannot lay down a bunt (reflects poorly on him), they do not play defense, they cannot move runners, they cannot score runners. He does a decent enough job with pitchers (maybe Coop takes care of that). Now maybe it's 100 percent on his players. Who knows? But Robin's teams APPEAR very undisciplined, very fundamentally unsound. He deserves a D for this season, C- at best but I'd give him a D. This kind of bothers me? It isn't a major league manager's job to teach players how to bunt or catch or throw. Just think of last January when the Sox hired Vince Coleman. I was at the Soxfest seminar when Hahn broke that news and it was met with applause. The base running problems are ova! They get to spring training. Every day the local news show Vince putting these players through drills and interviewing him about his philosophy. All these guys are going to get better jumps, they are all going to steal a ton of bases. They are going to be taking extra bases, no more station to station. Then, reality hits. The season starts. No one can steal a base. Everyone make poor decisions on the base paths, so much so you want even the fast guys to go station to station. In the end, sometimes you are what you are. Some players just aren't going to be good fielders. Some won't ever hit. Some will always be boneheaded on the bases, and a few will take a little from that work and become most likely, slightly better. I have yet to see a saber metric stat for coaching factor. Maybe that is in the works, but I doubt it. I am sure there have been guys that became great that wouldn't have been great because of a major league coach or manager. But there are very few.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 04:06 PM) I thought they kind of created that job for him anyway - not sure they would have another one, exactly. The assistant hitting coach is becoming more common. There was someone who was doing it before Harold but he had a Video title. Mike Gellinger. I am going out on a limb and thinking they want a guy like Ibanez who can speak Spanish almost for Avi alone. Ibanez didn't become productive until he was close to 30.maybe he can get through to him. I think the panic about Avi has started,

That seems like the Ibanez position. If he says no you could just move Harold's statue into the dugout and remain status quo.

I think Parent moving on is more about convenience than a jab at his job performance. His was the only contract running out. I also think the previous manager stuff for the bench coach is not to replace Robin, at least full time. Maybe as an interim, but it lets the White Sox select another guy with little experience if they ever do pull the trigger. So you can get a guy and sign him to a multi year contract. You really can't sign Parent to a multi year contract if you bring him back.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 02:39 PM) ah yes the collusion era when they refused to sign any free agents. followed a few years later by the owner lockout that maybe cost us another playoff. 1995 that was Sabo and Kruk and Bevington disaster 1996 they signed Tony Phillips and traded for Tartabull. One thing Schueler was pretty good at was picking up RFs for one season. 1997 Albert Belle Era begins 1998 Albert Belle Era ends and White Flag 1999 Rebuilding 2000 AL Central Champs. Just one year before Jerry Manuel became an idiot.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 02:07 PM) Apparently, there was substantial friction between Hoiberg and his program, and the ISU Athletic department as a whole. I have always appreciated that Iowa State doesn't bend as far as other significant DI programs on academics (though they still bend), but the nickel and diming for the department's biggest money-make seems awfully petty. Makes it less surprising Hoiberg left, though he may have anyway. Also not encouraging for the program's continued success. I think there was a lot of fiction in the story. Hoiberg replied yesterday he had the utmost respect for the AD.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 02:22 PM) .......and they immediately fell into baseball oblivion for the next 7 years or so. Not immediately but it did happen when they did the Cubs model total rebuild. You know the rebuild so many are clamouring for? They have a far better small core now though than back in 1980.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 02:03 PM) Just wondering. Who is Jeff Sullivan? Mark Fangraphs . Obviously a know nothing if he thinks the White Sox can even be average in 5 years as long as Jerry Reinsdorf is around. http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/1980.shtml Check out that roster. That was what JR inherited when he bought the team. Less than 3 years later, they almost won it all. It is amazing how hopeless people want to make this current situation.

QUOTE (flavum @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 11:58 AM) Familiar in that they're about the same age and in the baseball industry. Man, you can nitpick anything. You are the one who told us they had no direct ties. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-10...ouble-a-reading

QUOTE (flavum @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 11:53 AM) If I recall, Ventura didn't have any direct ties to Parent when they were hired. I would guess they identified a language problem on the bench and in the clubhouse, and they need to bring in a bilingual coach. They do have a connection. They might have had the same agent or something, but they were very familiar with each other when Parent was hired.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 11:51 AM) Parent was Ventura's hand-picked guy, right? Who fired him? Ventura or KW? Robin is on record for wanting all of them back. One thing to keep in mind is all the coaches except Parent are signed through next season. Parent's deal expires this year. It also does make sense they hire an Hispanic coach.

QUOTE (GoGoSox2k2 @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 11:44 AM) the start of cleaning house. please fire Robin next. please Rick I would find it most unusual to fire the bench coach. Then fire the manager. This pretty much tells you who is managing the 2016 White Sox.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 11:43 AM) Interesting. I don't see the point with three days to go and an expiring contract. Why not just not renew the contract. What usually happens is they probably told him he isn't coming back and gave him the option to stick it out. At this point, might as well get a 3 day head start on the offseason. He needs to start looking for a job. Unless he has pissed someone off, I would imagine that is how it is. I think they gave all of Ozzie's coaches the choice except Cora.

Who is going to pick up the phone and call the replay guys?

QUOTE (flavum @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 11:31 AM) The thing about Ventura being a yeller...fans don't care about a manager showing emotion on the bench. The media takes this narrative that Robin isn't emotional enough and makes it sound like that's his problem--which it's not. This shouldn't be a tough decision after these three years. I guess with one more year (another bad decision by Sox management), he'll be gone in 2017. Enjoy the shorter lines next year. They don't care? Why was he asked if he had a pulse? Robin's lack of appearing constantly pissed off and in players faces has been posted thousands of times on this board. That's not even mentioning talk radio, where the Ditka style is the way to coach anything. Of course if these same people were chewed out at their desks for everyone to see, they probably wouldn't call it good leadership.

QUOTE (flavum @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 11:23 AM) That's a bs media narrative that you're trying to attach yourself to. Don't do that. Parent being negative after poor play. Holding players accountable? Now he's not positive enough? Seriously, the giving bad advice to try to steal a job should show you where Lip's head is. It doesn't have to make any sense. If it's White Sox, and if it's negative, he's taking the bait.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 11:17 AM) If I were Mark Parent, and millionaires weren't doing the things being asked of them, I'd probably be a negative person as well. It is funny, Robin gets ripped for not spending the entire season yelling at players, but now Parent watches these games and is negative. Whiners are gonna whine. It also disappoints me that Lip, a professional journalist, would actually buy that sabotage theory.

QUOTE (DashFan @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 10:21 AM) A Spanish-speaking bench coach? Ozzie? I'd be upset if Robin is given an extension but if Parent were somehow replaced with Guillen, omg the entertainment. I have been on the Ozzie deserves another coaching opportunity bandwagon, but to me, that shipped sailed. It doesn't look like he pursued too much employment while his Marlins contract was still be paid out. Now that it won't be, if he starts looking left and right for one, it indicates to me, he still isn't about the baseball, he is in it for the paycheck. Hopefully, he, like DRose, will eventually be able to reach financially stable status.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 09:47 AM) Really? I've been to 20 games and I've seen the HR derby game no more than 5 times. Maybe you have gone when it rained earlier. It was rainy this year and they seem to bag the HR thing even if it rained 2 hours before the game.

QUOTE (LDF @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 09:23 AM) i agree. there is your built in pipeline to getting fans. I would imagine most of the posters here with young kids probably hit the fundamentals deck every time they take them to a game.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 09:08 AM) Good point. They've barely promoted it at all or even done the kid HR derby anymore- perhaps it will be gone. There is zero chance they will get rid of the fundamental deck. It is one thing that separates USCF from other parks. Kids love it. I have seen the HR derby most games I have attended this year.