Texsox

That's the circle argument. Everyone it seemed liked the Sox chances. So isn't that a vote for Hahn? It seems like we have - Fire Tony because he took a roster that should have won the division easily and mismanaged it. (Plus a ton of other stuff). Fire Hahn because he put together a crappy roster that couldn't compete. Even though 80% of the fans here, Vegas, and a fuckton of analysts thought they would. I agree that Francona (actually almost anyone) would be a great upgrade.

According to Balta better coaching would have completely different results including a division winner. That doesn't seem like Hahn is out of his element. It sounds like Hahn's guys just need better coaching.

It's a terrible roster with too many one dimensional players and lower level talent. If it comes back mostly intact with a promise of better coaching for completely different results I won't be excited but I hope you are right. I think the roster needs a major overhaul to get completely different results not just a managerial change.

Yep, they suck. Completely different? Mildly different is about as far as I'd go. I didn't see anything this year to change my opinion.

Dumping injury prone is half the solution. Getting decent return is the harder part. Reference Madrigal to Cubs.

I think I would share Quin's optimism but give Francona a few years.

Same roster? I don't think so. Too many holes. I wasn't convinced in April and I'm certainly not convinced in September.

Quin is convinced Francona could take *this team* to the top of the AL. I think we both would disagree.

Folks that think injuries weren't a problem must be Tony's drinking buddies. Our bench sucked and dropped off even further looking at the rest of the system.

Injuries don't matter when you have a strong 25 and a 40 with MLB ready players. Injuries are season killers when Garcia is your back up.

So was it making excuses all winter when we said the team has no depth and injuries will kill their chances? Or are they only excuses when we say in September we were right, injuries killed their chances? I don't think you can dismiss injuries as just an excuse. Injuries exposed the weak depth both on the 25 and 40 men rosters. Injuries become a serious problem for any team without depth. If the team actually had depth, then I believe it would be valid to dismiss injuries as an excuse because you could reasonably expect the bench to step up. In this case the bench sucks, no one expected the bench to carry the team, therefore it's a legit reason the team lost the division.

I agree. So how does Francona get these same guys to the top of the AL?

Are you convinced enough in the talent assembled to keep Hahn?

I'm all in on removing Tony and everyone that was hired while he was here. Especially if they had friends and family connections. Anything after that is a bonus.

Exactly. Over and over we said the lack of depth would hurt us. So pointing out that's exactly what happened isn't making excuses, it's a fact we all knew would hurt. Now accepting this team has injury prone key players and a weak bench in a good organization would result in actions. Sadly, we're not a good organization.

So they should have won with Luery Garcia as an everyday player and anyone who thinks otherwise is making excuses? They don't need Eloy or Robert when you have Sheets and Engle?

I see a huge difference between Anderson and Garcia. I feel better with Robert in center. The line up seems much better with Eloy hitting. I think we really needed a healthy Grandal. Then we can look over the pitching. But I guess some people think much more highly of the players who stepped in for the injured players than I do. I think the bench was crap and injuries exposed just how bad it is.

Welcome back to SLAM. Anyone ready for the off season? New shows streaming. Time to get some really early holidays shopping started. Books. Walk an hour instead of watching bull s%*# baseball.

When people say this team is "immensely talented" ( post I replied to) isn't that what Hahn was supposed to do? I said at the beginning of the season it's a third place team so I was all in on firing him. But after Balta and others showed me that this roster, on paper, was better, I've changed my mind.

2022 White Sox playoff hopes.

Agreed. JR should do exactly what *I* want to show he cares about the fans. Without all the information fan opinions really aren't worth much. It's easy to say we should sign this guy for $8 mil and when it doesn't happen believe the owner doesn't care. The player might hate Chicago. Might have rejected $8 mil. His agent may have a better relationship with the guy in San Diego. We never know.

I agree with your entire statement, but wanted to highlight these two things. Every time I read huge amount of talent, etc. I wonder why we have a Fire Hahn thread. I posted earlier about 2020 having more talent and after a few replies was proven wrong. He seems to be doing his job. This season proved to me how valuable a manager is. Folks in their 20s and 30s need competent managers or else they can't perform at their best. I believed for a long time athletes this talented could self manage like a neighborhood game. I was wrong. This failure is on Tony's shoulders. And how much I disliked this team since spring training.

I think we've cut and pasted that one for thirty years.

Yet here I am.

I think I want to ignore everything Sox until Saturday morning. Sleep late. Enjoy a nice cup of coffee. Maybe check on my landscaping. Detail my truck. Plan a couple woodworking projects. Then pull up the MLB app to learn if the season is over.