witesoxfan

Jas, I totally forgot about Ginter...hell, give them Ginter and Josh Stewart to sweeten the deal...it would be Lee and Garland for Colon, Ginter and Harris for Vidro, and Paul and Stewart for Barret...hell, no one said it had to be an 8-player deal...let's make it 9...nothing wrong with that...but it makes the deal sweeter for the Expos, since they'd be getting another starting pitching prospect...and he could make their rotation this year. They have no lefty starter at the time, I believe, and that is something they may consider using, who knows. Goddamn this deal is making more sense the more and more I think about it...all the players we give them cancel all but $500,000 of Vidro's salary out. Then Colon makes $8.5 million...which is $9 million. Then Barret makes about $1.25 million...which is $10.25 million that we take on. We then give them about $1.75 million, which basically means we take on $12 million, and they only have $3 more million to deal with. This also means they could move Fernando Tatis and at the same time take on over half his salary, which is sweeter for the other team...maybe take a shot on a 3B and only have to give up $3 million and a decent 3B or CF prospect...Atlanta, the sCrUBS, Pittsburgh possibly, maybe San Francisco and Colorado, where I think he would be best traded to...the Rockies don't have that great of a 3B, whoever it is right now....Tatis to Colorado for Gabe Kapler or Jay Payton would be a great move for the Expos if they could pull it off, especially it they wouldn't have to pay for any of Tatis's salary. Those would be two incredible moves by the Expos...those two moves alone put them at their goal of cutting $15 million($12 million from the White Sox, $3 million from the Rockies) and they remain a decent team, but not good, team. They could win 80 games next year with their team. Which is why the White Sox proposal makes so much f***in sense....the Tim Kurkjian thinks he's smart when he says that Juan Rivera and Nick Johnson for Bartolo Colon/Javy Vazquez would be a good move, filling both of Montreal's needs...bulls***. If that move occurred, then the Expos would have Guerrero in RF, Macias in CF, Rivera in LF, Wilkerson at 1B and Tatis at 3B, with no room for Johnson...no one is going to take a $6.25 million risk on Tatis, but they will take a $3 million risk on Tatis...that's what they'd be able to get with out deal. God, I am starting to like this...and one reason why this could happen in the next 24 hours...it's going to take a hell of a lot to get a deal this good.

He would supply left-handed power, though I believe that kind of balance in a lineup is extremely overrated. The kind of balance I want is 5 fast guys or 5 guys who can put it into play(in other words, they don't strike out much...good OBP guys) and 4 power hitting guys, who hit the ball hard and hit it a long ways(they can have a high OBP, but you don't need it), or 4 of one and 5 of the other. That is a balanced attack....you got 2 guys at the top of your order who get on base and do things, then 3 straight guys who can go deep, then another who can get on base and does things, then 2 more who can go deep, and then one more to get on base, and that is a balance lineup. Or you can get your lineup so unbalanced that in turn, it balances itself out....in other words, you get 9 guys that have the capability to hit 30 homers or more, and you wouldn't need a goddamn pitching staff...you score 1500 runs and give up 1250 at the same time...for example, I'll just makeup a lineup off the top of my head. C - Mike Piazza 1B - Jim Thome 2B - Jeff Kent 3B - Troy Glaus SS - Alex Rodriguez LF - Barry Bonds CF - Vladimir Guerrero RF - Magglio Ordonez DH - Manny Ramirez If that lineup stayed healthy all year and could take the beating it takes, I could win 120 games with that lineup....pitchers would want to face no one in that lineup....and notice I have 2 left-handed bats in the lineup...given, that means little since they are all superb hitters, but I just wanted to make a point. That lineup is so unbalanced in the fact that there is only one, maybe two guys who could steal 40 bases at this time(being Guerrero and maybe A-Rod) that it balances itself out. Some kind of consecutive walks record could be set...and if you got all 9 hot at the same time, 10-15 runs could be scored in an inning. That lineup would cost around $150 million, so it is unlikely that will happen, but I just made up an example off the top of my head. The reason I believe having a balanced lefty-righty attack is overrated is the fact that we didn't hit well against lefties this year...and we are a right-handed hitting powerhouse...we have 5 guys at the moment who could hit atleast .275 30 100 who are all right-handed. And we were not that great against left-handed pitchers....so what you're basically telling me is that if you want to add another left-handed bat into the lineup, you want to get even weaker against lefties?

Me too....Garland is going to be a stud someday....I gotta good feeling about him....he will figure it out. He's got pretty good stuff....it's a matter of figuring out what to do with it about now. I'd give them Wright and Malone if that's what they want....regardless of whether or not Malone was just battling an injury this past year. Malone could be a good starting pitcher someday, but with control concerns, I have think he may have Rick Ankiel written all over him.

Valentin isn't that good? How many other shortstops can hit .250 with 25 homers and 75 RBI?

I hardly ever count it as a player for player deal, ie, them getting 4 players and us getting 3....I count it as talent for talent...and we are getting much more talent then they are....and don't forget, they will bascially get another player, as we would be sending them cash too...or in other words, we'd be putting in slightly more money to their payroll than the other 28 teams are.

It was a good story, but there were too incorrect facts in it.... Colon will be making $8.5 million next year....I think. That's what I've seen anyways. His ERA last year was 2.93, not 3.85, as it says. Just an FYI.

You would have been traded for two studs, Erstad in CF who has great defense, a good bat and good speed, and Bartolo Colon, who is a stud pitcher, one of the better ones in the league. And you were the main part of each deal. I wouldn't be pissed....my confidence would be high, because I would realize that I am worth a lot of and I would help whichever team greatly that I would be going to. If I were compared to Bartolo Colon, which is basically what he's doing right now, then I am very high on myself.

Exactly....no way do we have Vidro leadoff....he is the perfect #2 hitter....Jose's pretty good too, and he showed us that in 2000, but I'd much rather have Vidro there....you get a .320 average compared to a .250-.260 average out of Jose, plus the same power production and run production to go along with better speed....I'm all for it. However, if we want to keep Jose at SS, then we should then pick someone up that can leadoff for us...someone that has good speed and can draw a walk. And I really hate to say the person I am going to say, but..... how about Rickey Henderson?

Uh....if the rumors are correct, apparently he's talking to the Expos where was this rumor. Check all over the message board and on the main site's front page....for a few examples. I believe baggs said that CBSSportsline had something too and that's where the rumor originated.

You mean, if we can keep Garland without giving up anyone named Borchard, Rauch, Honel, Malone or Diaz.

Biddle in the 5 spot....and the Sox could sign Lieber too, and maybe try him in August if the Sox are out of it(which they won't be, just to let you know). I'd give Jamey Wright a shot, or Shawn Estes too, if they came cheaply....hell, make Cy Young Porzio happy and give Mike Porzio a shot too....in fact, that's exactly what I say....use Biddle or Porzio in the 5 spot, and leave it at that.

Uh....if the rumors are correct, apparently he's talking to the Expos

Hey don't worry about it....it's just hard to look past that kind of thing....when a GM has that kind of reputation, you gotta see that. I'm sure that's the kind of deals we are going to get in the future, unless something is done about KW's job(for instance, firing him). And if it happens, we can all be happy and shove it down the nay-sayers throats. Hey, what a second...I was a nay-sayer for a little bit too....damn.....ssshhh....this conversation never took place. But we were right all along....if KW wants someone, he will try to get him. If he gets KW, we will be right. He wanted Koch, he wanted Ritchie, he wanted Wells...maybe now he wants Colon bad enough to get him. And it would be a great day in Sox history, to get a guy that the Yankees wanted at the same time. LMFAO!

No....we'd give you London Fletcher and Chris Watson for Brian Urlacher....gotta make it a MLB for a MLB deal!

in all fairness to KW, we are upgrading in both positions..... Jon Garland is my favorite sox player....ever..... but he's not as good as Bartolo Colon, and Willie Harris doesn't deserve the right to smell Vidro's Jock. Carlos would be missed, but it's not like he can't be replaced. All we have to worry about is that PTBNL.... and make sure it's not Malone, or Diaz...... It could be Almonte, considering that we have Koch for 3 years.... and Ring thereafter. I was just agreeing with baggs...I agree with your assessments as well....I was just saying that it falls under the same criteria as most of KW's other trades....not that it's a bad move...in fact, it's a good move and I have acknowledged it already. But baggs is right....it is a typical KW move. Only this time it would actually work out for us.

Ooooh, one more question. If that move happened, and then the playoffs started tomorrow, who would we have as our #3 and #4(maybe) guys in the postseason? I'd have to guess that we hope that Rauch is a stud and pitches like he did in 2000, but that may be wishful thinking....Wright could fare decent, but can you imagine Wright having to duel against Barry Zito or Mark Mulder? I could understand Colon against Hudson and Buehrle against one of the lefites, but I'd imagine unless Wright showed up with his 'A' stuff, we'd get killed...then again, we'd get killed with Garland out there too. And I have to agree with baggs...this is a typical KW trade....trade a 2B for a 2B and a SP for a SP, with us giving up a lot more players as well. Also, to go along with my post above....is there any chance that they may be eyeing someone in the rule 5 draft to pickup to leadoff for us? Hmmm...

Damn...if only it was Dan Wright and the minor leaguer was maybe Josh Stewart, I could live with it....I really like Jon Garland. I think he is going to be a stud someday....never a 20-game winner, but the possibility of being a 15-18 game winner with an ERA in the mid 3.00s....because he's only 23....he still has about 3 years left to get better, and I think he could do it. Dan Wright can be just as good as Garland, but with his inconsistencies more frequent than Garland's and him being older than Garland(I can only assume since Wright went to college and Garland did not), I really see more room for improvement from Garland. Regardless, it would be a good move. I got one question though....with this move, who in the hell leads-off? Vidro at 2B, Valentin at SS, Rowand in CF....Liefer would probably be our CFer....WHO? Do we trade Jose(Valentin, that is) and use Jimenez at SS? Do we sign a guy like Todd Hollandsworth or maybe Tom Goodwin and have them lead off? Vidro is a proto-type #2 hitter....decent power, but not good enough to be a really good #3 hitter(or not as good as Thomas/Maggs/Konerko would be at the 3 slot), real good average, and good speed, but not good enough to lead off....Valentin sure as hell ain't gonna leadoff with his .310 OBP or whatever the hell it is. I gotta thought....Miguel Olivo. Sure he isn't proven, but he's got good speed for a catcher. And if he could put up a .250 average and draw 50 walks, that'd put him in about the .330 OBP range, which isn't good, but it's probably the best we have. And then we'd have Josh Paul leadoff on Miguel's off-days. OK, probably not, but it was a thought. Maybe we could take a shot at Chuck Knoblauch and give him a shot at LF....he's pretty good defensively, as I remember seeing him rob Thomas of a homer this year, and he's got a good eye at the plate and really good speed. The only question would be could he get motivated enough to hit above .210? If he could hit .270, I think that would be our answer.

You got problems at CB? We'll give you Antoine Winfield, and we'll even be nice and give you Chris Watson too.... ...for Brian Urlacher! LOL

You're asking us this? LMAO! I don't know....I think there are now 2 GMs stupider than KW....Milwaukee's and Cincinatti's. How in the f*** did he think he was going to get Maggs from us? Jim Bowden is a f***ing douchebag.

I would take Kerry Wood...and I would also love to have Dempster. I think if KW could either swing a deal for Dempster or sign Paul Byrd (or even Omar Daal if it comes to him) we would we be fine. Don't get me wrong...I'd like to have Kerry Wood too....but I was just making a point...Jas said that maybe his arm has been affected by throwing too many innings as a youngster....and then I "coughed" Kerry Wood's name....because he blew out his arm after about 1 year in the majors. That's all I'm saying.

Harris's defense is lacking? Were you watching Ray Durham and thought it was Willie Harris? The Willie Harris I saw could go to both his left and right....the only thing I didn't like was the average, and that will pan out eventually. But a Harris for Dempster deal....that could not be turned down...we already have Jimenez, Hummel, Andy Gonzalez, Aaron Miles, and many others who could take over as 2B, and if we needed to do it, we could use Tony Graffanino as a 2B too.

Where do you buy tickets? I wanna win the lottery...the Bulls don't need it. They have enough money. Oh wait...wrong lottery...

Couldn't agree more Jas....that pissed me off. That potentially cost the Bears the game....that and Miller's fumble...those two things don't happen, Bears win. I am no Bears fan...but when anyone plays Green Bay....anyone...regardless of what jersey they wear...I cheer for them. I can't believe how f***ing bad Minnesota got ripped last week...holy s***....9 penalties that were called incorrectly...that turns the tide in a game. The Vikings should just be given the game because of that. The Packers are a terrible team to be 10-3. They would be 8-5 at best in a better division....when the other 3 teams in the division have fewer wins combined than the other team in the division, you know something is wrong.

What about Paul Wilson? There were talks about him in about June, but no trade rumors...just throwing names around. That's exactly what I'm doing here...or what everyone is doing here. He can't be that spendy.....and he would cost us maybe Carlos Lee? And if we have to take on a player, maybe a Ben Grieve, that wouldn't be that bad, IMO....it would give us a left-fielder for the time being if Liefer can't cut it. Or he could be a 4th outfielder or we could maybe trade him somewhere. And if we do trade Carlos....what about signing Reggie Sanders? He'd cost us between $2-3 million a year, and we'd get some decent power and good speed at the bottom of our order. And if it means anything, he's been to the World Series the past two years.

If he's out till August it's easy...he's taking up room on their roster, and they either a) want to pick up another player via the Rule 5 draft or b) want to bring another player up to protect him from the Rule 5 draft That'd be my guess...who needs a guy that is out until August? I guess if we signed Lieber, we could ask KW that too.