witesoxfan

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 20, 2014 -> 01:29 PM) If he keeps being a solid looking pitcher (1.51 ERA in his last 5 starts) then when the deadline rolls around, he'll be sitting there with an ERA in the mid-3's (he's at 3.97 on the full season) and the Sox will be in a position to ask for a whole lot for him, basically that'd be him pitching like a borderline #2 starter again, signed to a multi year, affordable deal. Of course, other teams should be hesitant to give up the kind of value for him that it would take to get a #2 starter given his recent injury history, making dealing him exceptionally unlikely unless the White Sox cut the price in order to move salary to find more Cubans. I just want to point this post out again. Last 5 starts - 35.1 IP, 24 H, 9 BB, 21 K, 2 HR, 1.51 ERA, 0.93 WHIP, .188/.262/.297/.559, .210 BABIP There is a lot of noise in those numbers, but there's also a lot of luck. However, worth mentioning far more - and an alarming number - are the LD%/GB%/FB% (respectively listed below) numbers in those starts NYY - 8.3%/50.0%/41.7% SD - 18.2%/54.5%/27.3% LAD - 12.5%/50.0%/37.5% DET - 23.8%/19.0%/57.1% SF - 23.8%/23.8%/52.4% He has been giving up a ton of line drives and fly balls. That doesn't need an eye test to tell you that those will turn into a blow up sooner rather than later. The first 3, yes, it's completely understandable why he pitched so well, especially against New York, but Detroit and San Francisco hit him around pretty good and he needs to start throwing more ground balls.

Just so it's known, we made a Soxtalk top 25 prospect list shortly after Adolfo signed and we made it a point to NOT include him simply due to having no knowledge of what he can or can't do. It's going to be the same exact thing with these others. If they hit the DSL and perform well at those young ages, then you will see them start to get included, but it's really not until they get state side do you see them ranked very highly.

Guess I don't see eye to eye with you guys on this.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jun 20, 2014 -> 10:27 AM) I think Hahn and KW are very similar and would do very similar things. KW always said that there was a time when the Sox were going to have to re-tool and start trading veterans for prospects. However, with what he deemed the core players still doing well he was sticking to the "go for it" plan until the organization felt iut was time to switch philosophies. I don't think it is a coincidence that once the organization decide to "go in a different direction" that KW stepped aside for Hahn. KW did his time and didn't want to go through the "re-tooling" process. He went back to what he always said he liked the most' scouting. I have no doubt that if KW had stayed the GM that he would be on a similar path as Hahn. Maybe not the exact same moves but a similar philosophy. Remember who the primary scout for the big players is for Hahn, KW. Williams always wanted to go for it. I think the reason they went to Hahn at that point in time was because they did realize they wanted to rebuild and did not want Williams at the helm. Williams never had the patience as a GM to build for the long haul, and he had plenty of opportunities to do so.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 20, 2014 -> 10:16 AM) You don't read anything, you just pick out points of a post and then make weak, easily refuted arguments against them. Then, once refuted, rather than come to an agreement on something you either pick out a new point and start the same process over, or you just ignore it and try again later in another topic. Next time I go out hunting for walleye I'm going to come find you, kidnap you, fill your stomach with that Crappensteiner, put you out on the water and then turn you upside down and use electrical tape to secure you to the boat. And I'll do that because you are a human trolling motor, and so I will put you to your greatest use, but for once it'll be for my own benefit, and that's because I like to live the High Life. Except that I actually have history on my side. How many times did Ken Williams trade and/or sell 4 pieces in one season? History says Williams would have hung on to Peavy and Rios and gone for it next year, instead trying to shed salary elsewhere or not spending nearly the amount that Hahn has on the draft and/or international free agency. Could Williams have sold those pieces? Sure, it's possible, because anything is possible, but I do not believe it would have happened. Meanwhile, all you do is make one point and then go into random ridiculous narrative about how you're going to do this or that or whatever and it's usually quite irrational and absurd.

tl;dr Pretty much everything you're suggesting is conjecture and speculation. There's no point in arguing it anymore.

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Jun 19, 2014 -> 09:25 PM) Again, please don't mistake the second number on those grades for a projection. They are more like a maximum or a ceiling. I hope that perhaps it makes more sense in that context. Since you're grading pitches, though, could you name off some guys who had/have 80 sliders and some guys who had/have 80 two-seam fastballs? Randy Johnson had an 80 slider. Maddux had an 80 2-seamer. Blyleven had an 80 curveball. Those are the types of pitchers you talk about with 80s. Either way, I could care less if those are maximums or whatever. Courtney Hawkins maximums are probably 65/80/70/80/80, but you don't see people talking that stuff about him. There has to be some sense of realism.

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Jun 20, 2014 -> 07:56 AM) I hope this is a joke, after Rodon we should already be top 15-20, then adding these guys and next year's picks and signings 16 year old players are going to have such little influence. Who gives a s*** where the system is ranked anyways?

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Jun 20, 2014 -> 08:41 AM) Failure as in the Sox drafting a guy in the first round they can't sign? Not can't. If they offered him slot value, he'd sign eventually. It would be insanity if he didn't.

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Jun 19, 2014 -> 07:37 PM) Jared Mitchell moves down to Birmingham. I don't understand why the White Sox refuse to pull the plug. Just silly. Because there's no point in simply releasing a guy. Even through all of his struggles, I've never heard anything bad about him and he's seemingly been nothing but a class act. Until the need the roster space, they are going to hang on to him. QUOTE (oldsox @ Jun 20, 2014 -> 08:26 AM) They said the same thing about Wade Boggs when he was in the minors. Third baseman, no power, not a prospect. And you just compared Justin Jirschele to Wade Boggs. Yeah.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 20, 2014 -> 08:24 AM) Basically trading Rodon for de Oca and the #4 pick next year is a horrible trade. Failing to sign Rodon would signify a mega failure on the White Sox front office.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 19, 2014 -> 05:14 PM) Now that's really not fair. Doubtful they would have made the same moves, but KW would have been making moves as well. I compare 2007 to 2013, and while some of the moves in the offseason would have been similar, history tells me Williams would have been more aggressive about getting a winner on the field in 2014 rather than looking towards the future. QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 19, 2014 -> 05:26 PM) More bulls*** from wite, as usual. As iamshack said, he would have been making moves as well. And go ahead and compare the rosters, it's pretty much Kenny Williams era stuff, including Sale, Quintana, Viciedo, Reed, Alexei, Danks, Floyd, etc. but also Dunn. Main difference was Gillaspie/Keppinger at 3B. Since then Hahn has made 3 significant trades (Reed, Peavy, Santiago) and one significant signing. He's brought in relievers and other stuff via FA and the waiver wire mainly, mostly the exact type of player KW would have gone after, big arms, ceiling, sinkerballers, etc. You're just full of bulls*** though. Compare what Kenny did after the 2007 season and you tell me what Hahn would have done. Kenny signed Alexei, traded Chris Carter for Quentin who was on his way to an MVP before the wrist injury, he had acquired both Gavin Floyd and John Danks the year before via trade, traded for Nick Swisher which didn't work out but was a big move at the time, etc. So what does Hahn do there, you tell me? Since I mentioned it above without even reading this, I think Hahn would have traded Dye, Pierzynski, and whoever else rather than signing them to extensions. He may have still acquired Quentin, maybe not. Maybe not. It's pretty impossible to tell. My problem with this scenario you're presenting is that you're ignoring history and precedent. You think Kenny Williams, after being gambler Kenny always trying to put a team that can win the division rather than struggle for a few seasons and put together a solid group of players, would have made the same international signings and the trades to look towards the future that Hahn did? I call bulls*** on that, buddy. (I loved Kenny Williams and everything he did and continues to do, but if you think he and Hahn would have had this same vision towards the future, you're motherf***ing crazy)

QUOTE (oldsox @ Jun 19, 2014 -> 06:50 PM) You don't know what you are talking about, just guessing. You said the same thing a week ago, IIRC. Odds get lower every day. Frankly, I wish Sox would take a portion of that money and throw it at de Oca. Sox have plenty of leverage, since they get #4 next year if Rodon does not sign. Boras won't hesitate to send him back to NC State next fall -- he has done it before No, I know exactly what I'm talking about and you are a conspiracy pessimist who believes that Murphy's Law plays out true more often then common f***ing sense. Until the day he doesn't sign, there's a 99.999% chance he signs. I'll even upgrade it to 99.9999%, just for you.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 19, 2014 -> 04:35 PM) Ha. 2013 had Viciedo and Gillaspie on it, as well as Sale and Quintana. Webb made his debut, so did Johnson who blew up in our faces but was considered part of this youthful revolution. Nate Jones was being groomed for the closers role, Petricka also debuted last year, our biggest trade acquisition came in July in the form of Avisail Garcia, etc. The 2014 team was pretty much already there in 2013. Hahn traded for Eaton, Davidson, and brought in Abreu. Kenny would have signed Abreu himself and probably would have been interested in Eaton as well, with all that "football mentality" and "Chicago toughness" Erstadian bulls***. Hahn made 3 big moves, one of which failed, one which has been okay, and the other turned out great - but let's not act as though Kenny would have shunned Abreu or that the Astros, Red Sox, and several other teams weren't also throwing lots of money at him. So yeah Hahn really did not do what you say he did. The extensions, the signing of Abreu, and personnel changes mainly bringing in Steverson, that's all Hahn. Also I am not sure why you put the word closer in quotes, as if Reed doesn't actually perform well enough to do that job. He's not elite, but you don't have to be elite to have value to a team. Compare the team from Opening Day last year to the current personnel in the organization and tell me how much of that Williams would have done. I'd give you Abreu and that's about it.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 19, 2014 -> 03:05 PM) I have faith in the Royals... collapsing down the stretch just like always. 2013 Royals First 52 games - 22-30 (.423 WP%) Final 110 games - 64-46 (.581 WP%) In a weaker Central division, I could easily see them winning the division.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 19, 2014 -> 03:55 PM) A couple of starts ago, he had an ERA over 3. Maybe erratic isn't the right word, but he wasn't 1968 Gibson/Drysdale/McLain either. Man, the Pirates/Grilli are having closing problems in recent weeks. Wonder if they could use Belisario? They also have Melancon and Justin Wilson. Pirates just had a leadoff double in the bottom of the 11th and couldn't score. 1968 Drysdale - ERA+ of 128 2014 Kershaw - ERA+ of 143

Really, they're playing a game of chicken, and Boras will eventually lose. If Rodon returns to school, he's risking $6 million to try and potentially earn an additional $2.5 mill, and he could lose as much as all of that $6 mill (though it likely be closer to losing $2-4 mill). Had this been prior to the last CBA, there's no way the Sox would have drafted Rodon because Boras would have been asking for $12 mill and he could have let it known well before the draft. The Sox likely would have taken Nola or Hoffman. With the slot, the Sox are likely offering the full slot value to Rodon while Boras is asking for $6.5-7 mill (or something along those lines) and both sides say "we're not moving." Boras realizes how important it is for his client to get the most and safest possible contract, but he also realizes that the White Sox badly want his client under contract. The Sox could likely wait until the very last second and Rodon would eventually sign, but they may cave a little to get him under contract sooner("if he signs by July 4th, we'll give him $6.25 mill, but that offer will be withdrawn beyond that date and will revert to a slot valued deal beyond that"). Either way, there's still a 99.999% chance of getting it done.

I am a conservative leaning, Republican voting American. I can't stand watching Fox, and I hate watching MSNBC even more than that. Both networks will say they have "fair coverage" because they bring in people from "both sides," but they will bring in strong speakers with good evidence from their spectrum's side and will bring in morons from the opposite side.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 19, 2014 -> 11:47 AM) Bard's line also occurred in the Sally league. A ball for those scoring at home. I think he's reached the point where he needs to find another line of work. LOL, that's terrible. Maybe he just needs to throw a few towels.

http://twins.scout.com/2/845132.html (this is from 2009) I expect both Dunn and Abreu to homer. Yohan Pino is Spanish for Dylan Axelrod.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 19, 2014 -> 02:39 PM) I still think Bears should continue to take flyers and development on players like him. TE recently seems to be a position of almost natural talent as opposed to developed skill. As a move/receiving tight end, yes, I think you are looking for talent there, but defenses will recognize that as a slow slot receiver and adjust. The true talents are those that can block too, and a lot of that is developed skill. That's what makes Witten and Gronk such special players.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 19, 2014 -> 02:20 PM) I don't think he falls past 4. Blake Griffin was injury prone too until he wasn't. Noel was a much less accomplished big man with just as many injury concerns and he went 6th overall (given, in a very weak draft class). Someone will absolutely take a chance on Embiid. He's a big man, he's going to get banged up and miss some time, but you just hope that some means "10-15 a year" rather than "multiple seasons and a shortened NBA career."

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jun 19, 2014 -> 11:58 AM) http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11107325...ry-new-uniforms These are awesome. I agree. Not sure if it's just nostalgia, but those colors really pop and work well together.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 19, 2014 -> 11:41 AM) @SouthSideSox: Seriously, Daniel Bard's line: 18 batters faced over two-thirds of an inning, 9 BB, 7 HBP, 175.50 ERA. Well it's an improvement over Boggs

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jun 19, 2014 -> 11:09 AM) Daniel Bard was just released by the Rangers, wonder if he might be the next man in for bullpen bingo. PICK HIM UP