witesoxfan

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Mar 8, 2017 -> 06:45 PM) Because you disagree? How do you know that Moncada will hit for average and power like Benintendi? From my own observations and research, Benintendi seems more like a 20/20 guy but with doubles and a higher average. He doesn't seem have the look of a true power hitter. Maybe I'm wrong on that, I've been wrong before. Moncada seems to have better power than that. Eric Longenhagen gave him a 60 for raw power, which translates to approximately 30 or so homers a year during his prime. Whether he ever develops the hit tool to the point that he's hitting for a high average has yet to be seen, but Moncada hitting .250 with good power is still an incredibly valuable player.

Moncada have had more intrinsic value to the Red Sox, so in some regard, they probably feel that they overpaid, but that $62 million would have had no effect on his market value. The Sox, now that they have him, aren't going to say he is valuable because he cost $62 million to get stateside. They are going to say he is valuable because he is good at baseball.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Mar 7, 2017 -> 04:20 PM) I hope we win 50 games. They'll win 50 games, but then they'll probably win a few more on top of that too.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Mar 3, 2017 -> 05:04 PM) Same needs to be done with Avi now before his contract becomes guaranteed. He's making $3 million, still has talent, is 26 years old, and the Sox don't have a ton of outfield depth. They have quite a few middle infielders that they can use right now. Lawrie was excessive. Garcia really is not. There's no harm in giving him at bats.

QUOTE (knightni @ Mar 3, 2017 -> 12:23 PM) Or maybe Moncada looks ready. Moncada getting called up to open the year would be the worst thing this franchise could do.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Mar 2, 2017 -> 07:13 PM) How are we ranking the positions in terms of premium? I'd probably go... SS CF 3B RF C 2B LF 1B So where do we draw the line? I would look to positional adjustments for WAR. So, in order, C, SS, 2B/3B/CF, LF/RF, 1B, DH. Considering how difficult it has been historically to find a good SS, we are living in a veritable golden age. Tim Anderson would be considered one of the best up and coming shortstops 6 years ago. Now people hardly know who he is. Here's the list of players who put up 2.0 WAR or more in 2010 http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=...=&players=0 And now 2016 http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=...=&players=0 But, point being, if you find a catcher who can hit, play in 120 games, and produce excellent numbers offensively, you are talking about an MVP candidate. The problem lies in the fact that it's a grueling position to play and destroys the body, so said player is virtually theoretical.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Mar 2, 2017 -> 07:57 PM) When does free agency start? And wite, do you not think that highly of Gilmore? Really talented player, flashes top 3 or top 5 cornerback at times, but he's erratic and gets stupid penalties and burned a lot. Very inconsistent. Also got banged up quite frequently.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Mar 2, 2017 -> 06:23 PM) Bears going after Glennon and Gilmore. LOL at Glennon. Dude sucks. Have fun with Gilmore.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Mar 2, 2017 -> 07:45 PM) Not to be a wet blanket, but the program being in a better spot than six years ago really means nothing. We really need to start seeing some of these guys crack our top 10 list in the near future. Paddy's been given more than enough time to start seeing some results IMO. Right. Stepping in dogs*** is better than rolling in dogs***, but it's still s***.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Feb 28, 2017 -> 06:50 PM) Pat Burrell, Darin Erstad, Nevin didn't play a premium psotion Darin Erstad didn't play a premium position? Darin Erstad was a two time gold glove winner in CF, and the metrics back it up. Darin Erstad absolutely played a premium position.

QUOTE (bmags @ Mar 2, 2017 -> 03:46 PM) TA just hit an oppo 2 run homer Really excited for Anderson.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Mar 1, 2017 -> 04:01 PM) Dayan Viciedo is nowhere near the prospect Robert is. Robert is the absolute best prospect coming out of Cuba. You bring up Viciedo's bat making him a potential superstar and yeah, that was all he had past a great arm wasted in LF. Robert is physically blessed. He has tools of all sorts that can make him a very productive player even if he has contact issues coming stateside. Yoan Moncada is a far more comparable player to Robert. Both 19-years-old at defecting, both incredibly gifted athletes with in game results. Moncada was signed two years ago this month. He is now, by some accounts, the number 1 prospect in baseball and on the short list of the White Sox most valuable assets. At the same time, while Moncada's ceiling is that of a superstar, I think a more realistic expectation is that of a very good player who flashes greatness but almost seems disappointing despite his actual value. I saw a comparison to BJ Upton (or Melvin Upton Jr, whatever). This isn't to say I wouldn't want the Sox to sign Robert, nor is it to say that the Sox absolutely have to choose between 10 mediocre prospects and 1 superstar prospect. Just that, gun to my head, I'm going to spread risk opposed to putting all the eggs into one basket.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Mar 1, 2017 -> 03:34 PM) Would you rather sign a potential superstar or 10 mediocre prospects for the same amount of money? For me the answer is clear. Dayan Viciedo was a potential superstar with the bat too. If those are my only two options, and knowing nothing else, I'm going to spread my risk and take the 10 mediocre prospects in hopes that one or two of them can be coached up to be good or star prospects or players.

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Mar 1, 2017 -> 12:46 PM) "Logically backwards? " LOL. It's a terrible way to create the team. They aren't going to be good for at least a couple of years, if not more, and you are talking about using up valuable service time on Zack Collins to serve as a DH and a 3rd string catcher who gets maybe one start a week. Currently, his catching skills don't translate to the majors (calling a game, working with pitchers, blocking pitches, throwing, framing, among others), and if he is catching once a week, those skills will not improve quickly enough to make him a worthwhile long term catcher, which is where his long term value is. Beyond any of that, he hasn't had any at bats past A+, and he struck out in 25% of those ABs. You could almost certainly count on him striking out about 35% of the time at the MLB level. Yoan Moncada struck out 31% of the time in 207 plate appearances in AA last year and was clearly overmatched in the majors last year, even if it was merely a cup of coffee. Wasting a year of service time with Moncada when he clearly needs more time to iron out the wrinkles puts the Sox at a huge disadvantage because they lose at least a full year of service time, if not more in the long run. Moncada turns 22 on May 27th. He's super young. It's not entirely unrealistic to expect him to not be up as a full time player until June of 2018. I'd guess it would be well before that, but it is not set in stone. If they do wait until June of 2018, he'd be under the Sox control through 2024. If they bring him up this year, as you suggest, he's only under control through 2022 and he's eligible to be a Super 2 player, which is less important but still ends up costing the Sox more money when they could instead be using those funds to add missing pieces to the puzzle. Beyond any of that, there is legitimate risk of damaging prospects by rushing them. They get so far into their own head and outside their normal game that they cannot recover. Gordon Beckham is the perfect example of such a player. I couldn't care less whether they sign Pedro Alvarez or not, but at least in this case if he hits well enough, you can get a live arm, similar to Nolan Sanburn, who was acquired for Adam Dunn. He probably turns into nothing but is worth a shot in the end. Your scenario carries so much risk and such little upside that it would take an insane management team to put that plan into action.

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Mar 1, 2017 -> 02:10 AM) One cannot want the team to tank but then suggest signing a washed up player as a LH DH because the line-up lacks power. The sooner Collins and Moncada are brought up, the sooner they start getting the experience they need. Minor league experience is overrated and can be counterproductive to players who can get too comfortable there and accustomed to lower expectations and an inferior level of competition. Collins can catch a few games here and there and get major league at bats as a platoon LH DH or pinch hitter. Moncada can share time with Saladino. The rebuilding process involves trading veteran players and bringing up the top prospects to see if they can compote at this level and to gain major league experience. lol wut This is one of the most logically backward posts I've ever read.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Feb 27, 2017 -> 02:07 PM) I almost never pre-order games unless the pre-release reviews are overwhelming and they are for Horizon Zero-Dawn so I put in my pre-order. I ALWAYS pre-order from Amazon, not only do you get 20% off as a Prime member but the game almost always arrives a day early, looking at the tracking it appears Horizon will be waiting for me when I get home today, isn't supposed to be released until tomorrow, very excited, it looks incredibly good. This is also a game I plan on purchasing.

QUOTE (Tony @ Feb 26, 2017 -> 11:41 AM) So many things can change over the course of 2-3 years. Free agent signings, trades, Latin American acquisitions, etc. I'd be upset with the front office if they took a lesser deal of talent because they were targeting certain positions for prospects. The success rate is so small on those who hit, I want to give myself the best chance for those guys becoming successful MLB players. If they do, you figure out positions when that time comes (trading two of those now developed prospects for an MLB veteran OF for example). There are a lot of different ways to go, I just want the Sox to have the most talent. It will make things so much easier. Theoretically, if the Sox hit on all of their guys in the minors and majors right now, they have enough. Anderson turns into a 3 WAR player, Moncada is a 5 WAR player, Collins is a 3 WAR catcher, Narvaez is a capable backup, Basabe is a 3 WAR player, Engel is a 2 WAR player, Lopez, Giolito, Kopech, and Rodon are all 3-5 WAR pitchers, they fill out the bullpen with any number of guys, and you're already looking at one of the best teams in the majors. They can get better from there. What are the odds of that happening, like 1%? 0.1%? Collect ALL of the talent.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Feb 27, 2017 -> 01:17 PM) Dead arm usually happens a couple months into the season though, to have it a couple games in to ST isnt a good omen. He's supposed to be their reliable one too lol. Guys hit dead arm in Spring Training all the time. Hell, they hit dead arm all throughout the year. Obviously it's something to keep an eye on, but I don't read much into a guy who has dead arm. It could legitimately be dead arm and his arm just needs some time to recover, it could be that he has some sort of injury, it could be that his stuff is worsening for any number of reasons, or any number of other things. Unless they do a medical evaluation and find significant damage, I wouldn't read too much into it.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Feb 23, 2017 -> 10:35 AM) It has nothing to do with us not realizing how good he was. We all saw it. The hangup is that he was only here for 6 full years and just 5 as a starter. If you start retiring numbers for guys that played for you for 6 years, you're going to start running out of numbers. Are you really trying to argue that Sale deserves his number retired more than Buehrle because of his talent level. Obviously peak Sale was better than peak Buehrle but there is a s*** ton more to it than that. Buehrle was here for 12 f***ing years. Not to mention the fact that, oh, I don't know, he was the ace of a World Series winning team. Come on man. We get it. Sale was your favorite. He's gone, move on. MBINAA

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 22, 2017 -> 12:34 PM) Ouch. Just looked at Frazier's advanced metrics. His defense took a pretty good hit last season. It pains me to say it but Frazier is looking more one dimensional like Carter. Still think he has more value than Carter but not by much. At this point all I can hope for is that Frazier's glove and batting average rebound a bit to make him more appealing at the trade deadline. He was about average defensively last year, and took the biggest hit in range. I wonder how much of that has to do with actually losing range, how he was set up defensively, how much had to do with adjusting to a new team and not knowing pitchers' tendencies, and how much is noise. Looking at the numbers, he didn't lose any speed from 2015 to 2016, and actually improved on routine plays. Also, the fact that he can play 3B and play it even fairly well makes him much more valuable than Chris Carter or other types like that. I think he's going to have a nice bounce back year.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Feb 22, 2017 -> 09:09 AM) I agree that he doesn't have a ton of value. I think similar to what we gave up for him at most is what we're looking at. However, I wouldn't say "no one wanted him." There really are no teams that need a 3B (yet) so it's not like teams were signing or trading for other guys instead of Frazier. Dodgers were the only team linked and that was more of an emergency in case they couldn't sign Turner (who had no market at all himself and was never linked to another team). I think we're in agreement that he's not worth much, but I think he's worth about a talented minor league player, perhaps a guy people project as a 45-50 FV who has the tools to grow. Frankly, to compare in the Sox system, I'd say a guy similar to Adam Engel.

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Feb 21, 2017 -> 08:00 PM) I am not following your logic. The Red Sox are in it to win it this year. Why would they want an unproven third basemen like Devers on a team like that instead of a guy like Frazier that could be a monster in Fenway? Also, Dombrowski has never been shy to spend money when he thinks hsi team is getting close to a championship run. It has nothing to do with having Devers on the team in 2017 and much more that there are better ways of capitalizing on his value. If you have $20 and can only spend it on one thing, are you going to buy something that's worth $10, essentially costing yourself $10? I want someone who is worthwhile. There are more 3B in the world than Devers and Frazier that the Red Sox can use.

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Feb 21, 2017 -> 06:58 PM) If Sandoval has any issues in Spring Training or soon after the start of the season, Dombrowski will trade Devers and perhaps more to get Frazier. Dombropwski and Boston are not going to mess around with any under-performing player on a team that is geared to compete for the WS this year. I don't agree with this whatsoever. The Red Sox got 0.9 WAR out of their 3B last year, which is more than I anticipated, and added a 5-6 WAR pitcher in Chris Sale to a team that was already favored to win the division. They have no reason to give up a very talented prospect unless the player they are getting is younger and/or under team control for a while. Todd Frazier does not fit that bill. If Sandoval falters, they'll have interest in Frazier, but they're not spending a lot on him. (This is not including the possibility of conflict between Frazier and Sale, which is a situation they'd certainly avoid at all costs) I see the Sox getting a 45-50 FV type in a trade for Frazier, and the Sox will likely look for upside versus a high floor. Devers is probably a 60 FV type is worth well more than Todd Frazier.

We have conversations about both Gonzalez and Swisher, so I am going to toot my own horn, because this is one of my favorite posts I have ever made. http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...t&p=2612000

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 21, 2017 -> 04:24 PM) Would you put up an offer in the $17.5 to 18 million dollar range to Todd Frazier? For the 2018 White Sox? Absolutely. If you figure he's a 2.5 WAR player, which he was last year, and even $7 mill per WAR (where it's actually closer to $8-8.5 on the free agent market, if not more), then you are talking about a guy who is worth $17.5 mill right there. Jose Bautista got a qualifying offer based on his past, because he only put up a 1.4 WAR season last year, which was also hurt by an injury. He just signed a deal for $18.5 million. I don't see why it would be far fetched for a 32 year old Todd Frazier to receive a qualifying offer if a 36 year old Jose Bautista gets one too.