caulfield12

That was the theory...save money $8-10 million on the salary differential while still trying to remain competitive. Flip CarGo for pitching to improve the rotation.

Morally right thing is very subjective to politicians. Most Republicans would argue it's morally right to get rid of Federal oversight of nearly every aspect of our lives (including environmental protections/EPA, or banking regulations that both Dem and Republican parties are guilty of removing that made the 2008 financial/mortgage crisis an almost inevitable moral hazard)... The philosophy that everything should be privatized or subject to competition, whether it's prisons or public education. If the mayor or the governor of your city made an announcement they were raising taxes by 5% to pay for improved water services/supply, then everyone would flip out and scream government tyranny. Of course, when governments try to save money or cut services, catastrophic events like the ones outlined above will occur. Nobody wants to pay higher taxes because a lot of people will just shout out that government simply exists to waste money/resources, and then everyone reacts in shock or anger when bridges collapse (Minneapolis) due to neglect or disrepair or water is tainted or polluted because there wasn't the public will to invest and fix the problem to prevent more expensive long-term problems.

It's going to be quite a battle between the Giants, Dodgers and rising D-Backs out there...with Colorado and SD kind of floating along in limbo and retooling/rebuilding or whatever they choose to call it.

So the total value is $35 million or $31 million over 3 years (including buyout)??? Interesting that he never got to his workout date for MLB clubs, right? Or did he already hold it? Edit: Guess it's $35 minimum then. $11.67 per year.

Sources: This thread will reach 200 and more likely 250-300 by the end of next week despite Caulfield12 supposedly ruining it.

Obviously, the Giants got scared off by the prices on the top guys or didn't want to go into luxury tax land. Their biggest problem is that Span and Pagan are both suspect in CF...in that huge stadium. You'd have to believe if Denard is 100% that he ends up in center, though, with Pagan on a corner. But therein lies an issue with the 2nd/3rd tier guys, you're picking guys with quite a few warts. No guarantees. Just projections based on due diligence.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 08:28 PM) He was responding to a poster literally asking for a list of the tier 2/3 pitchers, chill. I just put a list of the Top 10 remaining Tier 2/3 guys at the thread started on this very topic. Back to "grass/es" (Cespedes in Spanish) talk...

Here's what is currently remaining (per MLBtraderumors) and my subjective ordering of price/demands 1. Chen 2. Gallardo 3. Kennedy 4. Latos 5. Fister http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseba...s-for-cliff-lee Will Carroll (@injuryexpert) on Twitter regarding Cliff Lee Easy to work him out and do a physical. Hear he’s asking for too much base. I’d sure sign him to an incentive deal if [not] pass. 6. Cliff Lee (major questions about the health of his elbow after sitting out 1 1/2 years) 7. Lincecum (Coop can fix 'em!) 8. Masterson (Coop can fix 'em 2!) 9. Blanton (based on his peripherals last year, not bad for the price as an innings eater and part-time starter) 10. Josh Johnson (what a promising career he once had) 11. Mike Minor Bronson Arroyo (39) Chad Billingsley (31) Joe Blanton (35) Mark Buehrle (37) Chris Capuano (37) Wei-Yin Chen (30) Doug Fister (32) Yovani Gallardo (30) Jeremy Guthrie (37) Aaron Harang (38) Josh Johnson (32) Ian Kennedy (31) Mat Latos (28) Cliff Lee (37) Tim Lincecum (32) Kyle Lohse (37) Cory Luebke (31) Shaun Marcum (34) Justin Masterson (31) Mike Minor (28) Wandy Rodriguez (37) Yaisel Sierra (24) Alfredo Simon (35) Eric Stults (36) Randy Wolf (39) Jerome Williams (34)

Oh, and one more name for the pitching list....a big wild card in what Cliff Lee has left over. Okay Omar, what in your gut instincts tell you the White Sox have much of a connection with Upton? If you're looking at the field of all of MLB versus any one single team, the odds are not better than 25%, realistically.

Ian Kennedy, Latos, Fister, Chen (probably too expensive, at one point Boras was aiming for $100 million) and Y.Gallardo are probably the top five remaining pitchers on the market. Except for Fister, all of them should be in the $12-16 million range. Latos might be on the lower end as well. Chen the upper end and probably unaffordable/Boras Factor. But you have to look at JA Happ's contract and think anything is possible with pitching contracts STILL, as well as Leake's deal with the Cardinals. These aren't dominating or frontline starters by any stretch of the imagination.

Then it's simple, you go with one of the 3-5 remaining FA pitchers on the market, Parra OR Jackson AND/OR make a trade that doesn't cost you Fulmer/Anderson and ideally Adams. The last part's going to be tough to do without taking on a large salary like CarGo/Ethier/Bruce or ending up with someone just as likely to end up at a 1.5 WAR as a 3 WAR in the OF.

At least Rabbit is having fun with all of his tweets, so there's that aspect in terms of entertainment value for everyone.

Let me state once again, unequivocally, my belief that Ian Desmond (or perhaps Fowler in June), one of the remaining Tier 2/3 starting pitchers and Parra/Jackson OR a trade for an outfielder that doesn't cost Anderson/Fulmer...that's the better set of options. Two of those four. All needs being addressed is completely unrealistic. As it stands, doing more than one might be hard.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 07:22 PM) Why do you post on a White Sox message board? Is it better if I naively cheerlead with all my posts that we actually are going to get Cespedes or Upton? You'll notice that most of the mods aren't getting overly optimistic either... So you're on record as being how confident that we sign either or them? You'll notice that many times in the last few weeks I've put forth alternative/Plan B scenarios in anticipation. There's nothing wrong with the fallback options if you can find the right values. That's going to remove some of the sex appeal or marketing sizzle but it's the more pragmatic approach unless the contract terms are reasonable. Usually in FA they're not, as we learned last off-season. PS: In the end, I'm sure every agent like Jay-Z looks at the tv and radio ratings and considers the White Sox 30th place standing in those two categories a positive for their client's endorsement potential.

Let's also look at the marketing side of this. If you're Upton and Cespedes, and you feel you're a superstar, playing on the East Coast with the Nats, the Orioles, the Red Sox (although there was a rough parting there), the Yankees, maybe the Cards (winning tradition), the Tigers... Which one will give you the most media exposure and opportunities to supplement your endorsement income? Let's face it, right now Chicago is locked down barring a huge breakout from the Sox with Cubs mania/Cubs Nation/W flags.

If you're Cespedes, and you're getting the same offer from the White Sox and Nationals...where would you go? You can play in the nation's capital with one of the two true superstars in the game on what everyone considers a playoff contender versus a White Sox team that's somewhere between 3rd (optimistic) and last (pessimistic) right now out of a 5 team division. You're also even more confident in the NL East than the AL, where you now have a proven track record and just put up near MVP numbers. You've also got two "dead in water" franchises in the Braves and Phillies to pick apart offensively. The White Sox would probably have to overpay by at least 5% to get it done, if not 10%. Same thing with returning to the Tigers...unless the draw of being paired with Abreu is truly that enticing.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 06:15 PM) Good points. I think the Nat's are looking for a CF so they can use Taylor in a 4th outfielder role. I'm not sold on the Angels either due to their high payroll but I included them anyway since, IIRC, they have gone over the luxury tax threshold in the past. If indeed it's down to the Sox and Orioles, that could explain the the SOX media related rumors. No reason to flinch when then nothing to flinch about. Taylor is starting in CF in the same way Avi is in RF for the Sox. Forget the hype and read the stats sheet. Not a pretty picture.

Clutch, haha...Crede and Sandoval.

The Tigers loved Cespedes last year and Illitch is old. They're more forced all-in than even the White Sox because of the money to Verlander, Zimmermann and Sanchez. One more big bat to go with the Martinezes, Kinsler, and Cabrera balances out that line-up. Right now, the outfield is soft, decent offense from Iglesias (outperformed last year) but questions at third remain with Castellanos. McCann's a better than average catcher all things considered.

This was reported a long time ago...fwiw.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 05:55 PM) I see the Sox are still posturing, lol. Let's keep in mind that Cespedes was seeking 6 years, so the Sox low ball him at three years due to less than a handful of teams interested in Cespedes and a market full of outfielders. Garfien, whether one chooses to believe him or not, last week said Cespedes has not received more than a three year offer and I believe Chuck on this one. So what is left to do? Well, Cespedes is 30 and in my opinion going 6 years would be fricken stupid. I still believe the Sox are willing to go 4 years contrary to the PR bulls***. So in the nutshell we have the Sox likely willing to go 4 years for a player that seeks 6 years. If both sides are genuinely interested then the smart thing to do would be to meet half way which would be 4 years + 1 mutual option w/buyout. I don't like the idea of going more than four years but a mutual option doesn't sound so bad if the buyout isn't too much. If another team wants to offer more than 4+1 option then I hope the Sox do the smart thing and look elsewhere for an OF upgrade. Why would Garfine possess an insider's ear in the Cespedes camp? That begs belief.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 05:52 PM) STL doesn't worry me one bit. They are not a team to spend a lot of money in FA and already signed Leake to a big contract (to their standards) and have a lot of young OFs they want to give a chance. Depends on Adams/Holliday and who ends up at 1b or Adams possibly traded. The Oscar Taveras tragedy still reverberates. Sure, Piscotty and Grichuk are talented guys, but it might not be enough in the face of what the Cubs can throw out there.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 05:35 PM) Man if we get Cespedes on a 3 year deal all my reservations of getting him go out the window, that would be a hell of a deal by Hahn. Even if it's three years and $80-90 million?

If they're just playing a media game to goose fan interest and all we're left with is the idea it might have driven up the price for an AL competitor on Cespedes...there's going to be the sound of crickets from the marketing department unless they strike gold with Plan B/C in convincing fashion. All this stuff with sticking to three years is too obvious...well, since everyone expected Cespedes to get 4-6 and Upton to get 5-8 years at one point, it can't possibly work unless there aren't two other teams out there willing to go 4 or more. If Gordon got 4+ and Zobrist as well...they're going to have to pay hugely frontloaded contracts with early opt outs or pay Upton $21-25 million for just this season. That wouldn't work for the Sox since we're still waiting on Fulmer and Anderson to get ready the last couple of months this year for 2017 to hit the ground running.

And Span had expected (well, maybe Boras) 3 years and $40-45 million months ago because of the lack ofvdraft pick attached. That said, you had the injury and age factors overhanging. Pagan moves to corner spot now.