caulfield12

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 02:33 PM) You can look them up, it was 2011 when the Sox were all in. Konerko and AJ were supposed to be goners but they came back, and Paulie has never made anywhere near the $19 million Gordon would receive on top of the $4 million deferral or buyout. Mutual options are pretty irrelevant. Especially considering they are 4 years in the future. $13.5 million in 2013 (Konerko) vs. $19 million in 2020...

http://www.foxsports.com/detroit/story/whe...ome-from-062314 Martinez missed 44 games late last season with an injured wrist. And while watching video one day in Toronto with Houston Astros teammate Jason Castro, he made an abrupt decision while watching Castro's pretty swing. Martinez said: "I thought, 'Dang! His swing is so much different than mine.' I watched his swing a lot on video and then started watching the swings of great hitters. The one I watched the most was Miguel Cabrera because his has a commonality to all great swings. "And I decided to change my swing -- completely." http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2014/7/16/5891...-improved-swing And just naturally he ended up with the Tigers. The real irony is it didn't rub off on Baby Miggy. Or the fact if we had Miggy instead it could have potentially helped us land Martinez, etc.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 02:23 PM) There is nothing for stopping them from mutually agreeing to a contract of any amount of any length in 4 years. This thing is just for show. And I'm sure White Sox fans would understand if Konerko didn't get an additional $19 million for a victory lap. They gave him $2 million with $1 million deferred and people still were mad. What were Konerko's age 35 numbers, or Zobrist's? Konerko was obviously toast the end of that previous year.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 02:13 PM) I've not seen this from a single person Isn't that what Rabbit keeps intimating? Or was that Bucket? Hard to keep track. This supposed offer on Monday was only for three years? That seems crazy to be so far off...knowing you're going to have to pay a premium to dislodge him from the only team he's ever played for. If Hahn is this great negotiator, he would have to have known it would mean paying 10-15% more than KC. Or the Royals' package three days later (and direct communication from Moore to Gordon and not through Close) came as a complete shock.

Except if Mark Buehrle or Paul Konerko had a very solid season at age 35 and the Whie Sox let them go when they had an option to keep them (basically a loyalty rewards send off)...it wouldn't sit very well with the fanbase to see an entire career with one organization end his career with another team (in the case of a Buerhle or Gordon).

So there's also no reason NOT to believe the White Sox didn't offer four years and $80 million to Gordon on Monday, December 27th. We have the national writers saying three years was the max tendered and our inside sources saying four.

Jackson definitely is the best buy low guy right now...as Parra, Span and Fowler go up in price incrementally from Jackson's expected $7.5-9 million range.

One of those national beat guys called it the biggest bargain this offseason...and Pedro Alvarez is still out there on the market as well.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 01:44 PM) The season ticket Christmas gift. LMAO. Yeah, there are thousands of people who hand out professional sports season ticket packages as Christmas gifts. You know what we should get our 8 year old for Christmas honey? White Sox season tickets. He's been a good boy, lets get him Platinum boxes. I really thought your GM must have at least been a varsity starter on the HS baseball team took the cake, but you still are making even more stuff up that makes no sense every day. Congratulations. Platinum boxes and luxury suites versus partial season ticket plans are clearly the same thing....most White Sox fans must be swimming in so much money they no longer need to budget or plan ahead of time on allocating precious resources on season tickets. Why don't you call your season ticket rep and ask where they are +/- with ticket sales at this point last year.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 01:39 PM) I work in the Minor Leagues, and I certainly do not have anything like credible knowledge of MLB teams revenue/finances, but I do end up coming in contact with some of the executives from time to time and have been part of a few interesting discussions. One of my favorite things is how everyone laughs anytime someone brings up the Forbes projections of team value and revenue. It appears there's a pretty clear consensus that those numbers are a joke. There's certainly a clear argument to be made that overall team revenues (and underlying values) are growing at a much faster pace than the player percentage or share. So you either have collusion to hold down the salaries for outfielders right now or distortion in the equilibrium between supply and demand or simply the fact that some teams prioritize profitability more than winning and vice-versa.

You can go with Balta's argument if you prefer. There's still not enough revenue from last year to justify deliberately going into a loss of $10-15 million unless they felt the potential season ticket gain would be worth it. The closer we get to the regular season, the smaller the bounce. They've already missed the Christmas gift season window.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 01:07 PM) I never understood the Sox paying a premium for LF defense with Gordon given the smaller dimensions at the Cell compared to KC Otoh, we paid a premium for offensive potential in Cabrera and didn't get any there, either. But yeah, it's the same reason guys like Heyward and Parra would make less sense...unless we were playing in Old Comiskey. A lot of the value for Cespedes and Gordon is related to their arms and preventing extra bases from being taken...and that's still relevant, as we saw with Viciedo in 2012 as well.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 12:43 PM) Some interesting things to point out just from a quick glance. Dexter Fowler was essentially responsible for 20 runs scored in 2014 and around 13 last year. As opposed to Jason Heyward who was +24(saved). Cespedes was also better than Alex Gordon in that department. Alex Gordon dropped off pretty significantly. Hard to draw any conclusions when he was injured for six plus weeks on a counting stat...

Maybe. If there was a profit, it was more related to their 40% ownership and share of Comcast profits related to the Cubs' surge in ratings and advertising rates than those extra season ticket sales.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 10:43 AM) No. The 5th year is a mutual option. They can leave at 4. The 5th is not guaranteed. But, due to the fact he did agree to come back, there's at least a 50% chance they exercise it as long as he's still productive. The likelihood of that happening in KC is much higher than with any other team.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 09:44 AM) You like to site Forbes. Their numbers from the 2015 season aren't out, but 2014, according to them was profitable by 31.9 million. Can you let us know the P & L for 2015? Why don't you at least take 30 seconds to look something up once in a while? Your built in conclusions are almost always incorrect. And that $31.9 million was invested into LaRoche, Cabrera, Robertson, Samardzija's deal, Duke, Bonifacio and Beckham. There's no way they made a profit last year. They couldn't even get legit offers on a lot of sponsorships and moved on instead of giving massive discounts that would be harder to raise price-wise in the future.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 10:27 AM) Most likely, but also have to factor in that the KC didn't have to give up a pick, and there are reportedly significant deferrals which lower the present value of the deal. Right, they're paying almost exactly the same as we pay Melky Cabrera to "patrol" LF for the next two seasons.

QUOTE (spiderman @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 10:25 AM) If Gordon got $18M a year, is this expected to the be 'cheapest' deals of the 3 OF's? Definitely. When the offseason began, it was Cespedes for six years and $130-150 million, partially because of no lost draft pick. God know what is going on with the Upton market, but if it's a one year deal, it won't be at $18 million, that's for sure.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 10:09 AM) #Royalstalk It would behoove the White Sox to be looking at the same exact options as a fallback plan from Cespedes/Upton. Or are you going to guarantee we sign one of them? Many were picking the Indians for first place before yesterday, and that's without a healthy Brantley. The Twins haven't gotten worse, and Buxton/Berrios are both close to making an impact. The Tigers can always outspend us. Stand in place and you get passed by the field.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 10:14 AM) If no one else has offered Cespedes more than 3 years, why do the White Sox need to be the first to do so? You can always raise your offer. You really can't drop it. Because if they are second to the punch they likely won't get Cespedes or Upton? As it was, according to all reports here they were first on Gordon and were outbid three days later. But that second/last chance was for a hometown hero, not "mercenary" free agent.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 10:06 AM) How many teams offered Gordon 4 years other than KC? What are the current offers for Cespedes? What are the offers for Upton? What was the Sox best offer for Gordon? If you answered I really don't know to these questions, any whining about the White Sox and how they are NEGOTIATING currently with free agents is premature. Lol. The Royals gave Gordon $91 at five years.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 6, 2016 -> 02:14 PM) I have explained myself clearly. You have held two ideas in your head that a) there is a fringe population in the west that has acted out in illegal and damaging activities due to an ideology that they have been slighted by the fed regulation of the land. There is a fringier population among them who is currently holding land hostage by force. b) There is a larger population of people that do not support the first part of a and certainly second part of a, but do support policies in a range of exploitative grazing/mining or use of land for quads. Yet actually hold them all together as one group. My concerns are about group B, whom in all reports on your google searches on the matter, do not support the actions of A, but always caveat to sympathize with the handling of the lands under federal management. You continue to read that, and assume it's about group A. You remind me of discussions of Black Lives Matter, where no discussion of the actual grievances of human people matter because you really want to talk about the group that rioted. Nothing and no where have I stated anything that the group that stormed the federal land should receive leniency in punishment. In a similar way that you may pardon a protestor arrested for legitimate reasons but has sympathetic support may be a strategic consideration to show understanding, pardons could be applied to groups StrangeSox doesn't actually agree with. Also, the "years of government outreach" do not necessarily mean anything. Good governance is effective governance. What does caveat to sympathize mean?

http://www.royalsreview.com/2016/1/6/10724...her-ian-kennedy Royals moving on Ian Kennedy, with links to Cliff Lee, Latos and Gallardo as well. Chen and Fister given lesser consideration...Chen too expensive + Boras.

If they said at the beginning of the offseason they wouldn't go past three, it would have saved 200 pages of threads and lots of hand wringing. Gordon's deal actually has a fifth year mutual option, by the way ($91 million for five years)...he was the one, along with Zobrist, that nobody wanted for more than three years. KC has a payroll now around $135 million. They ended last year at $152 million, but weren't paying Cueto or Zobrist in reality. To put it in perspective, the White Sox earn at least $40 million more per season for their media rights/broadcasting deals alone...not counting the ancillary benefits coming from the Cubs now on Comcast revenues.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 09:31 AM) You just listed 7 of the past 11 seasons. Do you even think before you just type away? Those are two year cycles...2005 going into 2006, and post 2006 into 2007. And those were two of our winningest teams. The point remains, when have the White Sox upped payroll for TWO consecutive years following losing or below .500 seasons with low/marginal profitability? TWO consecutive years. Very simple request. I actually created a poll about this after the season and almost nobody had them at $135-155 million. The "best" or average optimistic guess was a range between $125-135 million.