T R U

Kopech DID suck here. You're the one who is saying 5 inning before he was traded he got fixed and that's why he did what he did with the Dodgers. That's just conjecture on your part as all quotes being tossed around for this seem contradictory. Bottom line is, this is now the second guy in practically the stretch of a year who was not good in the Sox uniform, was traded, and all of the sudden they are performing at an elite level with their new team. Again I say, this is more of an indictment on the Sox inability to get the most out of their players. This is not a Kopech/Vaughn issue, this has happened a lot here with several players.

They only need to win 5 out of their last 35 games to avoid it, which will almost certainly happen. Hell, they may even catch the Sox before this season is over.

I agree that going through a 162 game grind on a team dead in the water is probably quite miserable, regardless of how much money you are being paid.

WestEddy is saying the Sox "fixed him" 5 outings before he was traded, therefor, the Dodgers have nothing to do with it. It's best to just move on with your life.

Your whole argument here is that Kopech finally listened to the Sox 5 outings before ultimately leaving the organization. So he either A.) Never listened to them before or B.) Was never given this instruction previously. Either way, everything keeps circling back to the Sox inability to get the best out of their players. I can't pretend to know every conversation that takes place between an organization and a player but I can visually see successful players come here and lose all their ability to perform as well as when underperforming players get sent packing and all of the sudden they can play. This is not 100% the case for EVERY player, but seems to happen often.

We don't have to pretend, his body of work prior to be trading shows it. 43.2 IP, 4.74 ERA (4.84 FIP) and a 1.35 WHIP with the Sox 24 IP, 1.13 ERA (2.54 FIP) and a .79 WHIP with the Dodgers He quite literally become a shut down closer the day he put on a Dodger uniform, I just showed you the proof. I recall people bringing up the stories about Kopech not listening to the Sox, and if he finally did a week or so prior to being traded that still isn't the best look for the Sox there.

Yes I agree, but I was mainly just using that to make a point about an approach.

I look it at it like this, if my kid is playing video games and my wife tells him its bed time he needs to turn it off and he says "Ok let me finish my game" and then 30 minutes later he's still playing and my wife again has to ask him to get off which he says "Ok, one more minute" and then I have to walk in there and tell him to get off now and he immediately does so, its not the kid that's the problem its the approach.

Ah yes, Kopech, the other guy who allegedly refused to listen to the Sox but got traded, made a change, and was awesome overnight. Unless you think that is purely a coincidence?

The craziest thing I heard, this is the 33rd time they’ve scored 1 run or less this year. 33RD!!

Well I don't think you snap out of your .531 OPS by NOT making some kind of change lol

This is no longer a hot streak, he's very clearly changed something and it has taken off. And no, I don't think he is Barry Bonds but this is a guy who was very good in college and taken/rated very highly in the draft. The skillset has always been there. What's more likely, Andrew Vaughn refused to listen to White Sox coaches but chose to listen to Brewers coaches OR the White Sox are an amateur organization that has no idea how to get the best out of their players and the Brewers excel at that? Gee, tough choice there.

Rivalries are overrated, this is why the Dolphins got stuck remaining in the AFC east with 3 cold weather teams almost half the country away. They should have been moved to the AFC South instead of the Colts, but "rivalries"

No, im not in real estate. I don't understand what real estate has to do with a baseball team? The White Sox MO has never been to pay 1 great player, they spend average money on several players. The quickest way for this team to get better is to collect as many assets as possible and hope they become great players without the need to have to sign a FA to a $350M contract.

I agree, but it's still going to be pretty bad if they give up a 5+ war pitcher and in return they get replacement level players. I would say getting 3 everyday starters for a pitcher that had huge question marks and was looking to get paid would be great value.

This team hasn't even had more than 1 offensive player have more than 2 WAR going on three full seasons now, if we end up getting 3 everyday players putting up a combined WAR in the range of 8-10 from trading away 1 player that had no shot at being here long term that is a major win. Again, that needs to happen first before we celebrate but so far its looking really good.

Nah, he’s baseball dumb. He’s perfectly fine for right now but I don’t see anything special there and we have more promising players to give at bats to.

Yeah but, again, the Sox were never going to keep him so getting 3 players that they control for 6 years that can put up a combined 5-6-7 WAR is gold to them. They wont sign a player that can do that by themselves. In a perfect world, they just extend him and he's here forever.

That's the problem, there isn't. Sosa is just not very valuable as a player and I hope they can trade him in the offseason if some team becomes enamored with him. I would rather see Vargas, Montgomery, Meidroth, Mead get the bulk of the playing time moving forward into the future.

A 3+ WAR OF, a 2+ WAR catcher, and a 1-2 WAR utility IF would be an excellent return for a pitcher you were never going to sign and keep around. Obviously, this requires Montgomery to hold up his end of the deal. If Montgomery flames out and Teel floats between 1-2 war at peak, then yeah that's a pretty bad trade.

That's still really bad...

Vaughn and Palacios combining for - 3 bWAR certainly didn't help and getting them off the team was addition by subtraction. They had a nice little streak after the break where they score 10+ runs in 4/7 games but since then they have pretty much looked like the same team they were before the break offensively. I agree with you, it's definitely a positive but I don't know how anyone can look at this lineup and say with a straight face our everyday lineup is good (Doesn't mean they wont be good eventually). We'll be lucky if any of these guys finish with more than 2 bWAR and that's just where you get starter worthy value. If your entire lineup produces at substitute levels, you don't have a good lineup.

Average: 30th OBP: 29th Slugging: 29th OPS: 29th Reminder, there are only 30 teams in the league. So no, the lineup isn't good Greg.

The hope I have here is that they just have him working on things opposed to results, which to me is perfectly fine for someone you are trying to develop. You're right, in the grand scheme of things Schultz going 15-3 with a 2.50 ERA in the minors means absolutely nothing. If he can develop what he is going to need to be successful at the major league level, that is the most important thing of all. I really won't care if he has an ERA of 10.00 in Charlotte if he comes up to Chicago and is a competent rotation piece with great potential. I hope its like Colson, where he looked dead in the water in the minor leagues but once they get him onto the MLB roster we see vastly different results.

That was an absolutely ridiculous trade for the situation the Sox were in.