Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 27, 2014 -> 08:00 PM) Considering the team lost money last year, and every revenue stream is pretty much promised to be down this season, and they just spent way more money on the minor league system then they have in the teams history... Yeah, it isn't hard to envision something decently under $100 million. The Sox lost $2M last year with a $120M payroll and an absolutely horrific ticket pricing model. Add $20M in incremental revenue from the new national TV deal and it's nearly impossible to think we can't afford a $100M+ payroll.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 27, 2014 -> 07:52 PM) We're at $46 million in commitments right now. Even assuming that we only offer arbitration to guys like Jones and Flowers, non-tendering Viciedo and De Aza, we're still talking about around $10 million, maybe a few million less, for the couple guys we would actually offer. Then, filling out the majority of a roster with minimum salary guys is still going to push another $7-8 million assuming guys like Gillaspie get small raises. That puts us close to $60 million as a good starting point. $30 million in spending would push us beyond this year's payroll, and we also don't know how Abreu's signing bonus is being dealt with. We could afford a $100 million payroll potentially but with the erosion in revenue over the last couple years, I doubt we see that any time soon. Do you have access to their financials? How do you know how much erosion there has been to their revenue? I know they are now receiving $20M/year from the MLB TV deal. I also know they spent over $100M in 7 of the past 8 seasons prior to 2014. Furthermore, they made a serious f***ing offer for Tanaka. Just because they decided to cut back on payroll a bit doesn't mean it was due to a lack of revenue. We all knew this was a transitional year and that they weren't going to spend just to spend. I have no doubt we could have gone into this year with a much higher payroll if Hahn wanted to. Next year should be no different, except that it sounds like Rick thinks we're much closer to being serious competitors.

I still don't know where this $30M talk comes from. We have $46M in salary commitments for next year and only a handful of arbitration eligible players likely to be back. There is no reason we can't afford $100M+ payroll if we so choose. That gives us a good $45M to $50M to work with this offseason depending on which arbitration guys we decide to bring back next year. The problem won't be a lack of money, it will be a lack of quality options to spend it on.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 26, 2014 -> 01:12 PM) Given the (lack of) available options and costs, I still wish we'd see if Wilkins could fill that role, at least as part of a platoon. Balta, I'm convinced you want a $60M payroll next year. Even if we aren't major players in free agency, there is nothing preventing Hahn from acquiring an overpaid, but productive player that costs minimal minor/major league talent. In fact, I'm pretty sure Rick recently hinted at doing just that. I've said this many times, but financial flexibility is worthless if you're afraid to leverage it. I understand you'd like to use your resources on guys like Abreu that offer some potential surplus value, but those guys come few and far between. Sometimes you simply need to add production and pay accordingly. I'll take 3 WAR from James Shields for $20M rather than 1 WAR of Hector Noesi for $2.5M. You may be losing out from a surplus value standpoint, but you've added a decent amount of production to your rotation. And I get you're effectively paying $17.5M for two incremental WAR, but you only have 25 rosters spots to work with. Limiting yourself to a 1 WAR player in one those of spots simply because he's underpaid is quite foolish IMO. If Hahn thinks we're close to being competitive, then he'll use his financial resources to upgrade the roster regardless of potential surplus value.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Aug 26, 2014 -> 01:04 PM) Why wouldn't they just move Semien to LF and keep Gillaspie at 3B? Regardless, all of these positions are not going to be filled internally. They are going to bring in some combination of power and LH hitter(s). Thank you. It's nice to speculate how/if we can fill every spot internally, but it's definitely not a realistic scenario. Hahn is going to bring in some talent from the outside, most likely using our payroll flexibility.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 25, 2014 -> 02:08 PM) He used his last option this year. Once an option is used within the season, they do not have to be exercised beyond that point, so the Sox can send and recall him to their heart's delight (to some degree, as he has to remain in Charlotte for 10 days prior to them recalling him except in the event of injury). You sure about this? Wasn't he added to the 40 man roster during the 2013 season? If so, he should have one option left.

Thank god I will never have to watch another episode of True Blood. What a horrible f***ing finale.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 23, 2014 -> 02:13 PM) Is that because we will intercept the nukes lobbed our way? Any chance there could be a 9/11 type incident involving them polluting our water supplies? Any chance a disease like ebola wipes everything out like the last great Planet of Apes movie? It's pretty obvious we are ruining our own environment little by little. When is that gonna be irreversable? Why have chances decreased? That nutjob in North Korea ... Putin ... and what about China? Are the Chinese out to conquer the world ultimately? Just some threats. Lol...you are a complete nutjob Greg, but you make these threads fun to read.

QUOTE (Bigsoxhurt35 @ Aug 22, 2014 -> 11:40 AM) @SethLakso: In Carlos Sanchez, #WhiteSox get elite def. at 2B. Limited power, but expect him to hit around .250 & make the clubhouse a fun place to be. Let's hope he hits a lot higher than .250.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 22, 2014 -> 03:52 PM) I won't disagree with that. His first season gets as big of an F as possible, but it's the clear outlier. He didn't perform as expected, but given what he did the last 3 years, I think an overall grade of a D (which is subjective based anyways) is a bit unreasonable. At worst, I guess I'd give him a C, and I am in agreement that he was a bust of a free agent prize, though he's not the worst free agent signing in Sox history, so at least there's that. His total WAR from 2012 to 2014 will likely end up around 2 by the end of this season. Given that we paid him $42M over the last three years, I'd say a D is more than fair. And that doesn't even include 2011, which is one of the worst seasons in modern baseball history. I'm not a Dunn hater but clearly the move has not worked out for us.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Aug 22, 2014 -> 07:05 AM) Cubs prospects have 0 bearing on ours. Seriously, Caulfield needs to stop bringing them up in every thread.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 22, 2014 -> 06:57 AM) I haven't seen this much hype over a white sox middle infield prospect who didn't at the major league level since... Lol...just a horrible comparison.

For those talking about how we had a chance to see Semien earlier this year, let's not ignore the fact that he only had 142 PAs in AAA prior to his brief major league stint. Clearly he wasn't ready for the majors and was only up due to Beckham's injury. Drawing too many conclusions from those limited at-bats is quite short-sighted IMO.

QUOTE (Señor Ding-Dong @ Aug 21, 2014 -> 09:00 PM) Putting aside those small sample sizes of his play during his September call-up with the D'Backs and during spring training, an entire season's worth of futility in AAA is more than enough proof that he wasn't/isn't ready to be a full-time ML player. Your entire argument is based on "we don't know how he would have performed had he been with the ML team from the get-go." Well, based on his play in AAA, it probably would have been horrid. Your blatant disregard for Gillaspie and his "two month hot streak"as you called it is ironic given all the hoops you're willing to jump through to defend Davidson. Davidson has the higher ceiling, but Gillaspie is far and away the better player and there's a decent chance he always will be. You bought into Davidson's hype as a prospect and therefore anything Gillaspie did would not have been good enough in your eyes. Great post all around.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 21, 2014 -> 07:49 PM) This is perhaps the most illogical post I have ever read on this site. Davidson has proven he clearly isn't ready. Gillaspie has proven he has taken a step up. If you really think the reason Davidson is one of the worst hitters on the Charlotte Knights is because he feels sorry for himself, i want whatever you have been taking. If his psyche is that fragile, there is no way he could be successful in the major leagues. 100% agree Dick. Blaming his season-long struggles on being sent down to AAA unjustly is one of the worst demonstrations of deductive reasoning I have ever seen on this site. It's beyond all logic to think simply being in the big leagues would solve all his problems. IMO, some people bought way too much into his inflated Reno stats and his strong but limited (88 PAs) cup of coffee. I'm not ready to write him off just yet, but he faces an uphill battle when he's striking at a 30% rate in AAA.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Aug 21, 2014 -> 06:15 PM) Not surprised one bit its Sanchez getting the call. Johnson is shutdown, Semien has struggled at Charlotte ( has hit better July/Aug) and Saladino is done for the year so who else would it be? Here are the Charlotte stats for your reference: Semien: .809 OPS, 123 wRC+ Sanchez: .761 OPS, 110 wRC+ Johnson: .684 OPS, 87 wRC+ Obviously these guys do other things than simply hit, but Semien has been by far the best with the bat. If he's struggling, then I'm not sure how to describe the other two guys' performance. And in all seriousness, he was never really struggling either, he was just getting really unlucky. His BABIP is finally getting back to normal, but he's still a good 25 to 35 points off his career mark. For comparison purposes, it's currently 68 points worse than Sanchez's. I still don't know why a decent amount of posters sleep on Semien. He's shown significantly more power and a much better ability to draw walks than Sanchez ever has. I get the age difference, but that only goes so far when we're talking about a polished hitter who doesn't project to add much power. I think some people may be overvaluing Sanchez's hit tool and defense at 2B. Obviously great tools to have, but I don't think they outweigh what Marcus brings to the table.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Aug 21, 2014 -> 06:00 PM) Man, I'm disappointed that the Sox seem to have Sanchez and Micah ahead of Marcus on their future board. I still think Semien will be the best of the bunch. I like Johnson a lot and would argue he has the higher ceiling, but I still think Semien has the best chance of being an an above-average 2B. He's got such a well-rounded skillset along with tremendous plate discipline. I love his bat in the two hole, because he takes a ton of pitches and gets on base at a high rate. I'm hoping calling up Sanchez is a bit of posturing by Hahn. I honestly believe one of Semien, Sanchez, & Johnson will be trade bait if we hold onto to Alexei, and I could see Hahn using the "Carlos is our starting 2B" line this offseason to build up some leverage for him. Also, Sanchez does have the age card going for him, which probably adds to his value in the eyes of some GMs. He's definitely the guy I'm trying to move this offseason if I'm Rick Hahn.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Aug 21, 2014 -> 05:55 PM) I have made no bones about not being a supporter of a trade of Gordon Beckham. But, I realistically thought that over the winter we might see him dealt. But, this return for a #1 draft pick with a gold glove future ... a PTBNL or cash .... That is simply ridiculous You just don't get it, he's a good not great defender at 2B that can't hit. That's not very valuable, especially not for +$5M.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Aug 21, 2014 -> 05:25 PM) Sox have a 1, a 3 and a 5. Sox need about 3-4 more 3s. Wait, what??

I still think James Shields and few other additions can make us a legit contender next year. Look at this rotation and tell me we wouldn't be in most games: 1) Sale 2) Shields 3) Quintana 4) Rodon 5) Danks On top of that, we'd actually have some depth in the upper minors with Beck, Johnson, & Bassitt in AAA and Danish & Montas in AA. I get that Shields is on the wrong side of 30, will be extremely expensive, and cost a draft pick, but we have tons of financial flexibility and not much to spend it on. Even if he regresses some over the life of the deal, he can be an extremely productive player and quality veteran for the clubhouse. Maybe he'll end up being overpaid, but teams win World Series due to production NOT surplus value. Honestly, if I were Hahn, I'd make him my priority while other teams are focused on Scherzer & Lester. I'd be willing to go as high as $80M/4 years if that would get a deal done. Again, would probably be an overpay from a surplus value perspective, but we can afford to pay a premium for Shields as long as he remains a 3+ WAR pitcher.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Aug 21, 2014 -> 11:56 AM) Yes, but I'd still take a pitcher, as 4/5, who can give you decent starts most of the time. I made a mistake, he's had 5 reallly bad games where he gave up 37 runs in 23.2 IP. In his other 20 starts he has an ERA of 3.27. I know people say that doesn't really matter, I'm just cherry picking, and it makes no sense, but to me it does. It only makes sense if you can show us how the rest of the league looks when you take away their worst starts. If the delta between Danks and the rest of the league remains the same, then your argument goes out the window. I have a feeling most starters would benefit similarly if you removed the worst 20% of their starts.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 21, 2014 -> 10:38 AM) The USCF gun had him at 90-92 his last start. I don't think Danks is done. I don't think anyone is going to trade for him, unless you take back some expensive garbage, but there are worse things than having him around next year. His average velocity has been at 90 or above in two of his last three starts. That's a 2-3 MPH improvement from where he's been most of the year. If he can be in the low 90s next year, I have no doubt he can be a valuable starter for us. I'm just not sure that's a reasonable expectation at this point.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Aug 20, 2014 -> 10:36 AM) We better be. We can't waste Abreu MVP and Sale's Cy Young years any longer. This is by far the most important factor people are ignoring. We need to build around these guys RIGHT NOW, as Sale or Quintana could down at any point in time. Wasting the surplus value these players are currently providing is the dumbest thing we could do. It blows my mind people are so concerned about draft picks and the lack of surplus value free agents will provide. We have $46M in payroll commitments for next year and yet some posters are against spending anything of significance in free agency. Having financial flexibility is great, but it's damn near worthless if you're afraid to spend it.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 19, 2014 -> 06:54 AM) For five of Cabrera's eight big league seasons, he's been a 1.2 or lower WAR player. He's even put up 2 or 3 NEGATIVE seasons, as recently as LAST YEAR. It can't be a coincidence that all of a sudden he's playing this well right around the time when the PEDS allegations hit? He's pretty much a completely different player. Can you say contract drive? That's almost never good news for the poor sucker team that comes in and signs a guy to a long-term deal and then gets stuck with his deal and an often diminished level of production. Finally, I don't see JR or Hahn taking the risk of bringing in someone with his history. Tyler Flowers was one thing, this is quite another. I would say that we would be better off hiring Toronto's hitting instructor to work with Steverson to revamp our entire minor league approach to hitting. You can't argue with the results that guys like Bautista, Edwin Encarnacion and Cabrera have put up in a Blue Jays uniform...even Rasmus last season. PASS. And four of those seasons were his first four, all of which were with New York. Since then he's been productive in KC, San Fran, & Toronto. Don't get me wrong, the steroid issue is a concern, but most free agents today are going to be flawed to some extent or else they'll cost an insane amount of money.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 11:13 PM) I am a fan of making a run at Melky Cabrera. I am even guessing that 4/60 to 5/75 is the type of deal we'd be talking about. I would definitely be cool with a 4/$60M deal for Melky. At his current production it's a steal, and even with some regression it wouldn't be a bad deal. The only issue is that he's going to cost a draft pick, but so will most quality free agents.