Chicago White Sox

How is the Sox offering a take it or leave it offer not player friendly? Would the player be better off never getting an offer to consider? Where is a grievance coming from exactly? At a bare minimum, I’m sure there are examples of injured arb-eligible players who took more than a 20% reduction to stick with their organization.

And I won’t stop until it happens! But I 100% agree speed plays up better in CF vs. 2B. However, part of the allure of moving Moncada to the OF is taking advantage of his 70 grade arm, which is wasted to an extent at 2B.

What in the world is a “sub-arbitration” contract?

I’m confused here. Arbitration eligible players do not have to go to arbitration and can agree to any contract the club offers if they so choose. If the player rejects the offer, the team has the right to non-tender. How is this an issue?

Jonathan Mayo is reporting that Jeff McNeil is also involved in discussions. It’s going to be fascinating to see how this deal shakes out.

Great comparison. If you ignore age, defense, & PEDs, Cano is right there with Harper & Machado!

There were some rumors earlier that Bruce might be involved. That ease the financial hit a little bit if true.

Women that date/marry major league baseball players are aware of the fidelity risks and are able to decide if that’s something they can live with. Being physically assaulted is an entirely different monster and is unacceptable under any circumstances. The violence Russell has demonstrated speaks of much deeper issues and whether he can address that in counseling isn’t out problem. I’m all for calling out social justice warriors, but this is simply about having basic human morality.

Don’t disagree with your assessment in regards to Moncada, but I think if we add Machado then Yoan will be moved to the OF. If you look at recent picks like Madrigal (polished college bat), they tend to move fast and oftentimes reach the majors in their first full season. Right or wrong, I truly believe the Sox will take that into consideration this offseason and move Moncada off 2B. As for Gray vs. Rodon, I thought I’d get eaten alive for that proposal, but for the exact opposite reason. I’m not sure what metrics you’re looking at, but I don’t see much of an argument for Rodon having been better as a pro. I personally think both have fantastic stuff but am willing to give the edge to Rodon given he’s a lefty. Ultimately, I think both guys haven’t come close to reaching their ceilings and represent high-end change of scenery types. For me, I see an easier path for Gray becoming a 4 or 5 WAR pitcher (getting out of Coors) than I do for Rodon. The fact he’s not represented by Boras is simply icing on the cake. If I could get that deal done without Bummer, that would be fantastic, but I do think the Rockies are taking on more risk in the deal and would need a sweetener to get it done. Just my guess though

Looking at how good the Indians’ rotation is, I just wonder if time has passed by Cooper. Clevinger & Bieber were never huge prospects but come up and simply get shit done. Meanwhile Cooper has all these nice toys in Rodon, Lopez, & Giolito (sort of) and the results are a mix of frustrating & terrifying. If shit doesn’t gett beter next year, I think it’s time for a change at pitching coach.

Smith/Ruiz & Verdugo would be a pretty good starting point for Bauer, who only has two arbitration years left. CLE is likely looking for a major league ready OF so the matchup makes a ton of sense.

Not true at all. Our biggest problem is our young talent hasn’t taken that next step yet. We need to get more out of Moncada, Anderson, Rodon, Lopez, & Giolito. Those five guys and Jimenez are key for this team to take massive leap next year. Add a whale and another high end piece and we could easily fill the other holes on the roster with league average veterans. But it’s all for naught if you don’t believe in the young talent currently on the roster.

Exactly. And if you can somehow get him for two years, who really cares if you have to pay market for him? He would be a substantial upgrade over Avi IMO and would add much needed OBP to the lineup.

Our best bat last year? He was a below league average hitter with an OPS of like .720. We had guys better than him.

I think we have to accept the fact that Avi is a flawed but physically gifted guy who has a non-zero chance of putting it all together, but the odds of that happening with us are slim to none. We’ve given him 2,500 plate appearances, it’s officially time for us to move on.

It definitely is crazy. Now, will they actually spend up to $150M next year? Probably unlikely, but with the huge increases in National TV money in recent years, I think that type of payroll is possible at our current attendance levels. I fully expect us to get there by 2020 at the latest though.

He’ll probably be up by 2H 2020, but the beauty of this plan is you don’t have to rely on that happening. If he forces the issue then great, we can either move McCutchen to DH / the bench or shift Jimenez to 1B / DH. We would have a ton of flexibility on the positional side of things. If we want to be legit World Series contenders in 2020, that’s a good problem to have.

Alright, here’s my proposed “going for it” in 2019 plan. The idea is to put out a team that can challenge for the division next year and build up some hype from the fanbase (needed to secure that TV money) without sacrificing the future. Being honest here, I’m not a huge fan of spending big on Corbin, but he’s the only potential ace on the market and “going for it” requires adding someone of his caliber. I would definitely need Coop & Herm to vouch they can keep him healthy & productive. Free Agents: Manny Machado, 3B - 10/$375M (opt-outs after years 4, 5, & 6) Andrew McCutchen, OF - 2/$36M Brian Dozier, 2B - 1/$10M Patrick Corbin, LHP - 6/$129M Cody Allen, RHP - 1/$11M Drew Pomeranz, LHP - 1/$8M Trades: Carlos Rodon, LHP & Aaron Bummer, LHP for Jon Gray, RHP Yolmer Sánchez, 2B to Yankees for Freicer Perez, RHP  Roster (April 16th): Moncada, CF (0.6) McCutchen, RF (18.0) Machado, 3B (40.0) Abreu, 1B (16.0) Jimenez, LF (0.6) Palka, DH (0.6) Dozier, 2B (10.0) Narvaez, C (0.6) Anderson, SS (1.4) <Sub-Total: 87.9M> IF: Rondon (0.6) OF: Engel (0.6) UT: Delmonico (0.6) BC: Castillo (7.3) <Sub-total: 9.1M> Corbin (21.5) Gray (3.2) Lopez (0.6) Pomeranz (8.0) Giolito (0.6) <Sub-total: 33.9M> CL: Allen (11.0) SU: Hamilton (0.6) SU: Fry (0.6) MR: Jones (4.7) MR: Frare (0.6) MR: Burdi/Covey (0.6) LR: Banuelos/Stephens (0.6) <Sub-total: 18.7M>  <Grand-total: $149.6M> 2020 Transition Plan: Cease to rotation in 2H 2019 / 2020 Kopech to rotation in 2020 Tyler Johnson to bullpen in 2020 Madrigal to 2B in 2020 Zavala to C in 2H 2019 / 2020 Collins to C/DH/1B 2H 2019 /2020 Basabe to OF 2H 2019 / 2020

The calm before the storm.

I’d love Cutch on a two year deal. After that point, you’re likely blocking guys.

I would guess that +90% of free agents would not pass on an offer that’s 10% higher than the next best. I think once you get to that point, the intangibles just don’t matter. The players’ union also puts a ton of pressure on its stars to take max value and so does Boras. I think you’re being a bit pessimistic here. Regardless, I fully expect the Sox to add one high-end starter by the end of the winter meetings.

100% this / close thread.

When the guy starts off the podcast saying the Sox are in on Kluber, you know he’s full of shit.

I don’t disagree about a potential bias, but I do think he has a point with the quality of the umpiring.

He did say this, but I think he meant an early-opt out. And while I don’t think Bob really has any know here, I don’t believe the Sox would include one before year 4 anyways. If we’re going to risk significant long-term money, we better get these guys from 2020 to 2022 at minimum IMO.