daggins

They could also trade absolutely nobody and end up buying. Basically, we still have no idea what is going on.

FWIW, I voted he doesn't get traded. I just like these out-of-left-field scenarios.

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Nov 17, 2016 -> 07:25 PM) BTW, totally changed my initial feeling of the Dodgers, and went Yankees because of the McCann trade. I feel like they are trying to replenish their system a little before trading off pieces for Sale. I could see them signing EE and Chapman and trading for Sale. That would put them in decent shape for next year.

QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 17, 2016 -> 02:44 PM) This is more fun than other scenarios but feel like astros are giving up too much but I'm not that familiar with Hanson. Hanson is a decent MI prospect who could be a bench guy or starter for them this season. But I see your point. Including Frazier or Melky to HOU instead would probably make the deal more balanced. Another fun idea: COL gets Chris Sale CWS get Brendan Rogers, Riley Pint, Ryan McMahon + 2 lesser prospects This would be a really forward looking trade, since the two headliners are 2+ years away. Terrific talent, though.

Might as well have fun with this: Pirates get - George Springer Astros get - Cutch, Sale, Alan Hanson White Sox get hella prospects, including Bregman

QUOTE (hi8is @ Nov 14, 2016 -> 10:57 PM) Giolato? Yah Luke.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 14, 2016 -> 10:41 PM) He's the best pitching prospect in baseball. Best or second best. The other guy plays for another team in the Sale sweepstakes, so that's nice.

Given the typical Sox pace of rumors we won't see anything until the Winter Meetings. Still, any productive talks are a positive.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Nov 12, 2016 -> 08:09 PM) +1 I'm not familiar with Hustons farm but is a Sale for Bergman, Martes, Tucker, Fisher, and Whitely: A) Enough for the Sox B) Something Huston would even consider A. Yes B. Probably not.

1. Not a great look for the Sox if any of the orthotics stuff is true, to then non-tender the guy after a tough recovery. 2. I'm not necessarily against it, in a vacuum, but I wasn't against the Flowers NT at the time, and that was a disaster. Please do better Rick.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Nov 12, 2016 -> 07:01 PM) I'm guessing the latter. What's 5 million when you're going for it? 5 mil per year could be the difference between a bat like EE and settling for Beltran (or worse), for one thing. If JR has set a financial ceiling then 5 mil is a lot.

WSD thinks he may have been non-tendered which, if true, would be kind of shocking. Either they are freeing up payroll for a major FA or they are clearing payroll for a rebuild.

I, uh, think the Rockies might be a dark horse for Q, at least. They have a number of excellent positional guys, a decent, young rotation, and, unlike the Sox, have announced a direction by committing to adding payroll.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 6, 2016 -> 09:33 PM) Ah, so you can tell me my theory is wrong. Got it now. I am not saying a rebuild can't work. I am just saying that the historic odds aren't nearly as high as they are being portrayed here. We could just as easily see it blow up in our faces, just like we have seen in Minnesota with their rebuild. They are starting over again. I actually agree with you that the Sox won't rebuild and that doing so is dangerous. But I also think that using Minnesota is a bad example, for two reasons: 1. When the Twins started their rebuild, they were already terrible and had few movable assets. They have build a great farm system largely though good drafting and high picks, as well as the international market. Contrast this with the White Sox, who have movable assets but nothing to surround them with, no help from the farm, and a payroll that is likely already near maxed. 2. The Twins are still rebuilding - their surprise season of competence in 2015 didn't cause them to trade their farm depth. Though they signed some bad FA deals, none are really anchors. They still have a lot of near term farm assets that will improve their club in the next 1-2 years. They are hardly tearing down again. They just overachieved one year and underachieved the next. Again, I don't think you're wrong, I just think there's a valid case for going either way.

Here are some of the FA I feel the Sox will pursue, in ascending order of likelihood to sign: Cespedes - 1/25 chance - Yo is the prize of the offseason, and he is likely to get a fat 5 year deal. Look for the Sox to be heavily outbid by the likes of the Rangers, Giants, Angels, etc. Josh Reddick - 1/20 chance - Interesting name, and would add a left handed bat to a lineup that (still) needs it. Dexter Fowler - 1/18 chance - Would be an excellent signing, but he is going to get a lot of money. I could see him getting the Hunter Pence contract (5/90). Still think another team signs him. Wilson Ramos - 1/15 chance - The ACL tear likely torpedoed his chances at getting a QO, but he's best catcher on the market, and those guys get paid. Ian Desmond - 1/10 chance - I would be anything he is the Sox top choice of FA right now, even with the QO. Competition will be strong for his services though. Pedro Alvarez - 1/8 chance - Had an OK season, lefty power, probably available on a 1 or 2 year deal. Michael Saunders - 1/8 chance - LH bat, OF, pretty young. I would be ok with this. Carlos Gomez - 1/3 chance - Come on, this is so perfect a value signing. It's not mutually exclusive to, say, an Ian Desmond signing either, since both can play multiple spots.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 6, 2016 -> 04:13 PM) And the end result of that - they finish another season around 4th place, they have a bunch of guys get a year older and even hit FA, and Sale and Q's value starts slowly moving down since they're actually only under control for 2-3 years. That would also be a front office faceplant. Well, I left out a second part of that post, but you basically said it. If that happens again, I think even Jerry would have to fire some people.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 6, 2016 -> 03:52 PM) If the tiny sliver of tolerable CF and C's on the market get bought out while Rick Hahn is waiting on the market to develop, he will have left himself little choice. If this happens, they still wouldn't sell for less than they think their guys are worth. You'd just see more like last year, adding "value" FA at the tail end of the cycle in hopes to hit where they didn't last year.

I don't believe this indicates a direction. Hahn also said that they would be looking to add as well as listening on offers for anyone. I genuinely believe they have not picked a direction.

QUOTE (Baron @ Nov 6, 2016 -> 02:03 PM) He actually has to make the trades/get decent enough offers to make the trades. I'm not sure any of that happens. Right. He will listen on anyone, i'm certain, but other GMs may well (probably won't) match his expectations. Don't think this indicates any direction.

I'm not saying it doesn't make financial sense, rather that it might be impossible to justify adding after five seasons of non-competitive baseball.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Nov 6, 2016 -> 10:39 AM) Precisely but by blow it up I mean trade Melky, Frazier, and Robertson. Those three moves alone would shed ~$40M for the following season. So even if JR were to pump up the payroll to ~$150M at the start of the 2017 season, they would still have a ton of financial flexibility going into 2018. Maybe not a ton, since, if things go south, Jerry might not be inclined to keep a high payroll. I really do think that if the 2017 White Sox are hot garbage (after adding this offseason), they'll trade most of their assets. I feel like Hahn has been managing fans expectations in a way that indicates that direction.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Nov 6, 2016 -> 08:51 AM) I said it back in August, forget about a rebuild this offseason. Ain't happening. The only way I see a rebuild happening is if they are well out of playoff contention come late July. And I'm fine with that. Now if JR is serious about contending time to open up the checkbook a bit wider than the past few years... https://mobile.twitter.com/mjzalewski/statu...2298496/photo/1 If JR was going to open the checkbook, it would have happened last offseason. He's a businessman, and his primary motive will always be to make money. As long as he's making money, i'm sure he's fine continuing the piecemeal approach of the last few seasons. So yeah, I would expect reality to match up with that MLBTR plan.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 16, 2016 -> 05:23 PM) I'll admit I can't prove this one, but as of now I can't argue successfully against the nagging feeling that this front office has just gotten lazy. Don't think it's worth the time to interview other candidates for the managerial spot, basically the entire coaching staff is filled by promoting from within, those guys are replaced with guys that they already have in house or know personally. "Scheduling interview is hard work and we just don't feel it's worth it." Even if they did interview qualified candidates, I get the impression that White Sox leadership does not like to be challenged. That goes with not bringing in outside talent and the secretive nature of the regime.

Like, who is the strong leadership figure Getz is going to get his guidance from early on when he is still green? Is it Kenny Williams? Don Cooper? Frickin' Buddy Bell??

I doubt anyone in the White Sox would claim to demand the best. They are clearly fine with hiring people to learn on the job, and are more concerned with their "fit" in the org. That would explain their preference for hiring from within and favoring those they know for open positions. That being said, they've also developed a reputation as team that loses with no particular direction, and recent results have borne this out. It's fine to hire the way the Sox do, IF there is some process in place with a defined goal. This just seems like more wheel spinning.