Eminor3rd

QUOTE (GermanSock @ Feb 13, 2018 -> 01:19 PM) Hankins definitely needs to be mentioned too. But overall college pitching is not that good either. I think the best of the class is HS pitching, then HS hitting, then college pitching and clearly the weakness of the class is college hitting. Some college hitters will move up late as always though because college hitters have the least bust potential out of the 4 groups (Would rank the "safety" 1. College hitting then college P, then HS hitting and clearly the highest risk in hs pitching) I was referring to college pitching, which is why I didn't mention Hankins/Liberatore. Overall, I just think the HS class sounds better than the college class. Within that HS class, pitching is just so phenomenally risky. These guys are still growing, and physical changes can have substantial effects on mechanics, velocity, and health. Given that the guys we're talking about are so good, it's more likely that any such effects will be detrimental rather than helpful.

QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Feb 13, 2018 -> 11:19 AM) Trevor Cahill – if you look at his advanced numbers he to me is my #1 FA I’d like to sign. Coop and Duncan could make this guy into a really nice piece moving forward. Cahill is a good idea. He probably can't stay healthy as a rotation piece at this point, but if you want to talk about a guy who could be ideal to become the next Miller/Devenski/McCullers multi-inning reliever, he's a great candidate. And if we're honest about the level of uncertainty in our rotation (given all the rookies and the James Shields'), we could really use a guy who can chew up 2-4 innings on a regular basis whilst actually keeping us in the game. Great fit, IMO.

QUOTE (GermanSock @ Feb 12, 2018 -> 06:05 PM) I actually think it might be the other way round. The strength of this draft is clearly pitching, most of the hitting prospects have some warts ( like madrigal's size, turangs power or we sedas ability to stay at short). Sure if you get a hitter you like do it but as longenhagen says the strength of the 2018 draft is clearly prep pitching. For hitting it is pretty mediocre and there isn't really top of the chart talent. Gorman is I think a good guy but he again is a corner guy. Sure if he hits like vlad jr that doesn't matter but if it is 50 hit and 60 power instead of 60 hit and 70 power that is pretty pedestrian. Kelenic isn't bad but I think he is more of a 15-20 guy and getting him at 5 would be an overdraft. I think if they get a hitter at that position it has to be an up the middle guy without real elite bats in the draft. I'm pretty sure 3 pitchers will go in the top 5 so one of de sedas or turang should definitely be available. I've heard people say that, but outside of Singer (who I can't see falling to us) and occasionally Rolison, I never hear anyone mentioning any names as top-of-the-draft talents. Maybe McClanahan is that guy -- this is honestly the first time I've even heard his name. I think it's possible that there's a ton of college pitching depth in the first round overall, but I don't know if that talent exists in the top 5 picks.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Feb 12, 2018 -> 04:08 PM) Then Arrieta is a fool. Yep, that's insane.

QUOTE (GenericUserName @ Feb 12, 2018 -> 03:20 PM) Did they devalue pitching overall or did they devalue starting pitching while also adding value to relievers to better reflect the current game? I believe they specifically said that at some point. I don't remember if it was in writing or in a podcast. But whoever was talking mentioned Burdi as a guy who is on thelist because they're trying to acknowledge the increasing value MLB teams are putting on shutdown relievers.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Feb 12, 2018 -> 11:48 AM) Gorman is my far too early hope, but if the Sox decide to go pitching, Shane McClanahan is tantalizing. Sounds like the kind of pitcher that would thrive in the Sox system. "The power lefty missed 2016 with TJ surgery after a big velo jump, but he’s back and the fastball taken another step forward, working 94-97 and hitting 99 mph. McClanahan also has an above-average slider and changeup, but fringy command." https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/mlb-draft-r...-2019-and-2020/ I think there are just too many good positional guys this year to even consider a pitcher outside of Singer/Hankins, IMO. You're guaranteed to get one of Gorman, De Sedas, Kelenic, Turang, Madrigal, etc. at #4.

I fear the HS pitcher in round 1. It's the most Hawk thing about me. There's just so much that can change so quickly with those guys.

QUOTE (GenericUserName @ Dec 9, 2017 -> 10:18 AM) I just wonder why everyone assumes that a kid is as fast as they are ever going to be when they are 18? When people talk about high school football recruits they say how they will add muscle and get faster, but for every baseball player the consensus is that they will add muscle and slow down. With his current run times he could probably stay in CF if he just maintains his speed. I've seen studies that show that velocity and speed peak between 20-22 in baseball players. Data is only over the last 15 years or so but that's where the idea comes from anyway.

QUOTE (WBWSF @ Feb 12, 2018 -> 09:10 AM) Looking at this list of bullpen pitchers has to frighten the most optimistic White Sox fan. Only if you haven't paid attention to the last couple years.

QUOTE (JPR @ Feb 10, 2018 -> 07:59 PM) Exactly. Just because the Cubs are giving up elite prospects (Eloy Jimenez) and shelling out $100 million contracts for starting pitchers doesn't mean that they are worth it. Speaking of elite prospects, I'll argue (I was right about Giolito before he debuted check my post history) that Cease is exactly the type of pitcher the Cubs need right now and not a small minded over the hill pitcher who can't perform when the lights are shining their brightest. Cubs are not going anywhere and it'll be fun to watch. Their squad will be falling apart when the south side starts rising again. No club in baseball has more under 25 talent than the Chicago White Sox. So our one WS proves exactly what must be done to win, but their one WS was so clearly a fluke that they should be disregarded? Come on man. I'm on your team but this kind of homerism just makes us look bad.

QUOTE (Spartans Rock @ Feb 9, 2018 -> 02:10 AM) NOW, make Duncan the PC, and show Coop the door. Coops been getting mulligans since 2005. We're not even a year from Kahnle/Swarzak.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Feb 8, 2018 -> 01:28 PM) damn bro you ninja'd that on me! Thanks for your input on the Yolmer case. It seems odd at first glance. Yeah, just speculation, but I have read that some front offices have this sort of policy. I really just can't imagine any other benefit. I mean, the extra lawyer costs for preparing and running the hearing probably eat up a big chunk of that difference.

This seems stupid and short-sighted to me. From what I understand, the relationship between player and front office is (unsurprisingly) nearly always strained after going through these hearings, as the player has to sit there and listen to the front office's lawyer try to convince a judge that the player isn't worth what he wants. When the numbers are substantial like in Avi's case, I can see it. But there's no way that's worth a hundred grand. The only explanation I can come up with is that the White Sox have instituted and communicated some sort of "no exceptions" policy when players don't accept their offers so as to make it seem more impartial when they refuse to negotiate and/or to dissuade players/agents from offering aggressively with thie intent of negotiating a deal that squeezes some extra money out. Maybe this makes sense in the long run, but it sure looks dumb in this isolated case.

Balta's right -- you can't add effectively in trades/free agency unless you know what you actually have. Letting the kids play is good for their development, but it's just as important for the sake of separating the wheat from the chaff. Going into next season and potentially bidding for Harper or Machado, wouldn't it be great to know if Delmonico or Sanchez is actually rosterable as a starter? One or the other busting or thriving could change everything. Now is not the time for marginal upgrades.

I can't imagine caring at all about which radio station the Sox are on, so long as the station can be heard clearly during game broadcasts.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Feb 4, 2018 -> 02:14 PM) He's not the only one that thinks this. Correct, that appears to be consensus. Kiley McDaniel said the other day that he sees him fitting in like an Evan Gattis -- a guy ho finds a spot in the lineup every day but is the second or third catcher.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Feb 7, 2018 -> 01:23 PM) It seemed like the talk all off-season was also that they would trade JBJ after signing JDM. The longer the JDM signing is put off, the harder it is to trade JBJ since teams that could have traded for him have already signed/traded for other options or dealt pieces away for other areas of need. Unless they have no issue with Hanley being platoon DH or 1B. That move never really made sense anyway.

QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Feb 6, 2018 -> 01:10 PM) We are now, what ..? A week from pitchers and catchers reporting? I think we've kind of all come to the consensus that we'd rather sit this FA out and let the kids play and figure out what we have. I am in this consensus after swaying a bit. With the Sox having a hole at 3B for basically 15 years minus a few years of Crede -- and then somewhat with Frazier.. would you CONSIDER taking on Moustakas if you could get him at 4 years and $40-48mm? Listen, I'm not even a Mous fan, I am just asking the temperature to a deal like that. A guy who you could lock up from age 29-33 and hits 30HR a year. The interested parties have dwindled QUICKLY, and if there is someone you can get for a big, big discount I think it's him. I personally would consider under these circumstances. - a deal that is at least 3 years, but not longer than 4 years. - a deal that has an AAV of no more than $12mm, but hopefully closer to $10mm - a deal that doesn't have any opt out (we don't need him at all in year 1, and probably year 2) I consider this because of our history at 3b, that if you don't truly believe in BUrger sticking at 3B, and with the consideration that this doesn't preclude you from going after Machado and putting him at SS. (Figure out Anderson later) I think with ALL of the top 10-15 or so free agents, there is a place where the price gets low enough that it makes sense. However, I think that the price that makes sense for the White Sox is lower than the price it makes sense for a bunch of other teams. So you're right in theory, but I don't think these guys will practically fall down to us. Also, it sounds like Boras/MLBPA seem to be dead set on forcing a strike rather than accepting that this free agent class is simply weaker than average and they just aren't going to demand the same type of salaries as recent classes. There seem to be multiple reports saying that Hosmer has two 7yr/120-140mm offers on the table, but Boras is holding out for 10 years. Darvish has multiple 5yr offers on the table, but he's holding out to see if the Dodgers will clear space for him. Martinez has a 5yr/100-125m offer from Boston on the table, but he wants 200m. So I fail to see how this is the teams' fault -- these guys have very reasonable offers, they're just insisting on being treated like superstars instead of the flawed-but-above-average players that they are, simply because there aren't any true superstars available. As such, the Moustakas'-tier player is left holding the bag because no one is shopping down there until the top guys sign. I think a guy like Moustakas will just take the opportunity side with the union in their publicity stunt rather than settle for a pillow contract. IMO, this is a bold, all-in push by the players to gain ground in a year where they really don't have a lot to justify the gain. They're doing this to themselves. Let's see if no one is willing to pay up for the generational talents next year before we start yelling for collusion.

Not to be callous, but the death of Jose Fernandez really messed up their chances to win. I mean think about the White Sox pre-selloff if suddenly Chris Sale just straight up disappeared. Not something you can just recover from.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Feb 2, 2018 -> 01:28 PM) What about Manny Machado's stat line last season makes him worth all the money he's going to get? If he has an off year it should be interesting to see the excuses of fans still wanting to pay him 30 mill a year. Last year .259, 33, 95 RBI. His OBP .310 with 50 walks against 115 strikeouts. Since everybody's talking Avi's BABIP, what does Manny's suggest for this year? Decline? Or he's going to be great? I mean I like Machado's traditional stats OK enough. .259 is blah. But at a similar age, Avi hit .330 with 18 HRs, 80 RBI. 33 walks, 111 Ks. Avi's BA was much higher, Manny's HRs and RBIs greater. Manny had more than 100 more at bats. Hosmer, who is considered a god and about to make 20 mill or more year hit .318, 25 HRS, 94 RBI, 66 BBs, 104 Ks. He's about to enter his age 28 season and wants 8 years. Abreu hit .304 with 33 HR, 102 RBI and .354 OBP with 35 walks, 115 Ks and he's entering age 31 season. Arguably he's better production than Hosmer only 3 years older. Top two reasons: Unlike Avi, who is a bad defender in an outfield corner, Machado is an elite defender at third base and is now moving back to shortstop. Unlike Avi, who has one good year against four awful years, Machado has one mediocre year against three great years (and a good but injury-shortened fourth).

There's just so little upside to Matt Kemp. Giving more at bats to Davidson/Delmonico or signing an underpriced late-offseason free agent that got left behind by the market both seem like better alternatives to me.

Jeanmar Gomez #AgeGate 2018

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Jan 27, 2018 -> 02:09 PM) Law has the Sox as the #4 farm system. Seems low. He has Braves, Yankees and Padres as #1-3 in that order. I think that's pretty much consensus. Remember that we graduated Moncada, Giolito, and Lopez. Also, our 15 - 30 guys pretty much all had their stocks drop.

QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Jan 23, 2018 -> 10:37 PM) No? There is a difference between the two. I am also pretty sure Law is not yet convinced Hansen would pan out as a TOR. What is that difference? Just because the guy is a TOR doesn't mean he's a top tier ace.

I'm extremely high on Lopez, and think he's the best SP prospect in the system (MLB included) outside of Kopech. I think his stuff is absolutely electric, and I think that his low K-rate last season was a result of him learning to use his change/two-seamer as an out-pitch as opposed to simply relying on his velocity. I was encouraged by the fact that his walk rate was entirely reasonable and much lower than it was with the Nationals as we was figuring this out. I think he simply needs reps with this approach, and that he's a step forward in command away from being a 2/3 that absolutely dominates on occasion. I know I'm probably the high guy on him, but I have more hope for Lopez than almost anyone else in the system right now.