You are penalizing guys for something beyond their control though.

 

Eh, I don't see that as super important here. Winning games in a pennant race should be more important than Q beating Minnesota while both teams suck.

Eh, I don't see that as super important here. Winning games in a pennant race should be more important than Q beating Minnesota while both teams suck.

You're missing Jimmy's point. Why should Sale and Q be penalized for being on a bad team if they have (relatively) no control over it? Put Porcello on the White Sox and he'd probably have just 13-14 wins. Put Sale/Q on the Red Sox and they'd both have 20 wins easily by now. Why should Porcello benefit in the Cy Young race for being on a team that gives him loads of run support, if Sale and Q don't have that same luxury that's out of their control?

Going to Vegas soon and putting money on Kluber. Only because payout for Sale isn't good.

You're missing Jimmy's point. Why should Sale and Q be penalized for being on a bad team if they have (relatively) no control over it? Put Porcello on the White Sox and he'd probably have just 13-14 wins. Put Sale/Q on the Red Sox and they'd both have 20 wins easily by now. Why should Porcello benefit in the Cy Young race for being on a team that gives him loads of run support, if Sale and Q don't have that same luxury that's out of their control?

 

The run support isn't important, and is more reflected through wins and losses, which aren't really that important. What is important is being successful in high stress situations, which is what a pennant race is. Why should a guy like Porcello be punished for the games he pitches in being more important than Sale or Q?

 

Realistically, if all these awards are just going to be boiled down to purely statistics, there is no point in these awards having any meaning. Not everything in them should be black or white, or "fair", though I loathe the whole its not fair thing anyway. Baseball's scheduling isn't "fair". There should be a reward for winning on the big stage versus winning a whole bunch of meaningless games. There are intangibles in baseball, and these awards should recognize that on some level.

Why should a guy like Porcello be punished for the games he pitches in being more important than Sale or Q?

Who is punishing him for that? People are just saying they should be on the same playing field, not giving Porcello the benefit of the doubt cause his team is better. For all we know Sale and Q would have better numbers this year if they were in the race and they shouldn't be punished because their team f***in blows.

I don't think it does because you are penalizing them for something that isn't their fault. You might as well use pitching wins. They're both subjective.

 

I agree but most stats especially in baseball are subjective. Sice we have hitter's parks and pitcher's parks, doesn't that penalize/reward players. Is it fair to say any Rockie hitter stats are skewed?? Many media people are talking Betts for MVP. But in fairness, he is hitting behind Ortiz and in front of ramirez who also are having monster seasons. So in fairness, Betts is putting up big numbers on a team where a lot of other people are as well. I think GWRBI is a very important stat but obviously it penalizes players on bad teams.

Who is punishing him for that? People are just saying they should be on the same playing field, not giving Porcello the benefit of the doubt cause his team is better. For all we know Sale and Q would have better numbers this year if they were in the race and they shouldn't be punished because their team f***in blows.

 

But they aren't on the same playing field. Porcello is pitching in more important games in a pennant race. Sale and Q are not. They don't play the exact same schedule. They don't play the same teams. They don't play against the same line ups. They don't play on identical fields, in the same weather conditions. They don't have the same defense behind them. They don't have the same line ups hitting behind them.

 

By not acknowledging that guys who are on top division teams are pitching in tougher games than the guys who aren't, you are punishing them for pitching more important games, instead of the other way around. No matter what at some point you are making judgement calls of what is more important. For my two cents, winning in a pennant race should carry weight over someone who puts up the same numbers with absolutely no pressure on you.

There's no real standout so Porcello probably wins it because of his record and his other numbers are close enough to the other contenders. It's unfortunate though because if Sale/Quintana/Kluber/Tanaka also got more than 8 runs of game in run support like Porcello gets (which is far and away the most in baseball), then they'd all easily have 20 wins as well.

Theres a reason why I didn't include pitching wins when I listed those 5 candidates

Who is punishing him for that? People are just saying they should be on the same playing field, not giving Porcello the benefit of the doubt cause his team is better. For all we know Sale and Q would have better numbers this year if they were in the race and they shouldn't be punished because their team f***in blows.

 

This will never happen while so many 50+ year old BBWAA members are still voting.

 

Even if you had players or managers voting, they wouldn't go off WAR, only the agents.

This will never happen while so many 50+ year old BBWAA members are still voting.

 

Even if you had players or managers voting, they wouldn't go off WAR, only the agents.

You don't even have to look at WAR, among traditional metrics Porcello only stands out by W-L record. And if pitching in a pennant race matters, then he has nothing on Kluber.

If NY keeps winning I think it's Tanaka otherwise I think Sale may honestly do this. Unless Q keeps this up

http://www.espn.com/mlb/features/cyyoung

 

Looks like Porcello and Lester in a close battle with Scherzer...

http://www.espn.com/mlb/features/cyyoung

 

Looks like Porcello and Lester in a close battle with Scherzer...

 

Robertson was on this list a couple weeks ago.

 

Britton will win if he doesn't blow any (he almost did the other night). It's a special season for a reliever in a year where no starter is standing out from the pack.

 

If he blows it, I hope Sale makes 32 starts, 230+ innings, and an ERA under 3.00. That would stand out.

Sale's start against Atlanta really ruined things for him

In fact, aside from the ATL start, Sale would have a 2.76 ERA

In fact, aside from the ATL start, Sale would have a 2.76 ERA

 

Too bad, but it happened. He also put 7 extra innings on the bullpen on July 23rd. Nobody knows how he would have done that night.

Another save for Britton in a 2-1 win.

Would still be shocked if they gave it to a Baltimore reliever when they could vote for a Red Sox starter...the bar is just so high for relievers since they have their own separate award, or at least they used to.

Would still be shocked if they gave it to a Baltimore reliever when they could vote for a Red Sox starter...the bar is just so high for relievers since they have their own separate award, or at least they used to.

 

It's two voters from each AL city picking top 5 pitchers. It's going to be a big mix of different ballots, but if Britton has a perfect season with an ERA under 1, it would be tough not to place him high on most ballots.

He'll have a case but while relievers have won it in the past, they all pitched significantly more innings. Britton is going to end up with less than 70 innings.

http://www.baseballmusings.com/cgi-bin/CyYoungTracker.py

 

This is also probably a more accurate Cy Young tracker than the ESPN one (though it's probably undervaluing Britton).

Edited September 19, 20169 yr by OmarComing25

I'm starting to believe Britton may win.

 

In the absence of a clear frontrunner, I feel like voters will get cute and try and make the novel pick.

Not at all. Pitching in important games should be more important than meaningless ones. It is kind of common sense to me.

I agree with you. Pitching in pressureless meaningless games just isn't important and I'm not giving the Cy Young or MVP to someone who racked up the stats on a garbage team (unless they are that much better than the competition).

You're missing Jimmy's point. Why should Sale and Q be penalized for being on a bad team if they have (relatively) no control over it? Put Porcello on the White Sox and he'd probably have just 13-14 wins. Put Sale/Q on the Red Sox and they'd both have 20 wins easily by now. Why should Porcello benefit in the Cy Young race for being on a team that gives him loads of run support, if Sale and Q don't have that same luxury that's out of their control?

Cause I view it to be easier to pitch in meaningless games. Zero pressure. I suppose someone could argue it is "harder" cause you are over it and not playing for anything, but bottom line, while I realize it is an individual award, i'm penalizing the guy putting up huge stats on a garbage team and if that player is going to have to win, they have to be head and shoulders better then everyone else.

 

PS: Chris Sale is not heads and shoulders better then everyone else (nor is Q).