We'd all love Turner, Giolito, and Robles. Jesus christ people. Turner was like a 3.5 WAR player last year in 70+ games. He'll be a 5 WAR position player. Sale is a a 5-6 WAR pitcher. Trading Turner to acquire Sale doesn't really do anything for the Nationals. There is no chance that they do that and we'd all be better off not expecting it anymore. Giolito is best pitching prospect (outside of Urias) in baseball. Robles is a legit stud. They need other pieces for sure and I'm guessing would get them. Bregman isn't available. Red Sox seem to be out. You can totally tell who has done research and who just chooses to freak out by just reading this thread.

I wouldn't say that. Dombrowski is NEVER out.

Anything new on Twitter? It's killing me not having access to it right now.

Yeah, tons of stuff. It's mostly about a guy punching a kangaroo though.

We'd all love Turner, Giolito, and Robles. Jesus christ people. Turner was like a 3.5 WAR player last year in 70+ games. He'll be a 5 WAR position player. Sale is a a 5-6 WAR pitcher. Trading Turner to acquire Sale doesn't really do anything for the Nationals. There is no chance that they do that and we'd all be better off not expecting it anymore. Giolito is best pitching prospect (outside of Urias) in baseball. Robles is a legit stud. They need other pieces for sure and I'm guessing would get them. Bregman isn't available. Red Sox seem to be out. You can totally tell who has done research and who just chooses to freak out by just reading this thread.

 

It also doesn't do a whole lot for us as far as building depth.

 

If Washington somehow caves on including Turner, you're probably getting Turner and some second-tier prospects. You're not going to get Turner and Giolito and Robles.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, tons of stuff. It's mostly about a guy punching a kangaroo though.

Lol, I saw that video. Amazing.

I wouldn't say that. Dombrowski is NEVER out.

 

Boston just traded Shaw to Milwaukee for relief help. Not sure if that makes Moncada less likely to be traded.

If people truly believe the things they've said about the White Sox being good at developing pitchers, then a guy who has strong stuff but hasn't yet translated that into results would still be an extraordinary get for the White Sox. The question is, do we have confidence in the org turning stuff into pitching?

Been thinking this morning about Giolito and can't help but be reminded of Gavin Floyd. Although Floyd was approaching the former top prospct status when the Sox traded for him, their body frames and stuff is not that different. Both with straight fastballs in the low to mid 90's, great curve balls but trouble locating and change ups that need more development.

 

To answer your question; yes I think the Sox can turn Giolito's stuff into pitching and a better one than Floyd turned out to be. My hangup with Gio is the TJ surgery he had. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems that more times than not, one TJ surgery eventually leads to a second. That does stick in the back of my mind but his potential at 22 years old is just to good for me to object to.

 

I admit that I prefer a trade with Houston or Boston but I won't complain about a package that starts with Giolito and Robles from the Nat's.

We'd all love Turner, Giolito, and Robles. Jesus christ people. Turner was like a 3.5 WAR player last year in 70+ games. He'll be a 5 WAR position player. Sale is a a 5-6 WAR pitcher. Trading Turner to acquire Sale doesn't really do anything for the Nationals. There is no chance that they do that and we'd all be better off not expecting it anymore. Giolito is best pitching prospect (outside of Urias) in baseball. Robles is a legit stud. They need other pieces for sure and I'm guessing would get them. Bregman isn't available. Red Sox seem to be out. You can totally tell who has done research and who just chooses to freak out by just reading this thread.

And no matter how much you continue to talk down to or shout at other posters, it doesn't change change the fact that Chris Sale is one of the the most valuable commodities to ever hit the trade market. Believing other GMs at face value is an odd path to take here.

I've been thinking about it. Are you guys as pissed about this bull s*** as I am? I don't care that Giolito and Robles are highly ranked. Why is Chris Sale getting an equal or possibly worse return than Shelby f***ing Miller?

I've been thinking about it. Are you guys as pissed about this bull s*** as I am? I don't care that Giolito and Robles are highly ranked. Why is Chris Sale getting an equal or possibly worse return than Shelby f***ing Miller?

I do agree with others that we need to let go of the Shelby Miller thing.

Personally, I believe the most prudent move is to freak the f*** out right now and jump to every s***ty conclusion. This will lead to maximum enjoyment of hot stove season!

 

Its very enjoyable for me to read anyway.

We'd all love Turner, Giolito, and Robles. Jesus christ people. Turner was like a 3.5 WAR player last year in 70+ games. He'll be a 5 WAR position player. Sale is a a 5-6 WAR pitcher. Trading Turner to acquire Sale doesn't really do anything for the Nationals. There is no chance that they do that and we'd all be better off not expecting it anymore. Giolito is best pitching prospect (outside of Urias) in baseball. Robles is a legit stud. They need other pieces for sure and I'm guessing would get them. Bregman isn't available. Red Sox seem to be out. You can totally tell who has done research and who just chooses to freak out by just reading this thread.

Yes, because that made up metric WAR means everything and is the be all, end all to all baseball conversations and who will/won't win.

I do agree with others that we need to let go of the Shelby Miller thing.

But at the same time, if you're the White Sox and you're trading Chris Sale, you just can't settle. Either you get your guy (Turner) or you hold on to Sale/trade him elsewhere. Someone will bite eventually. If they don't (unlikely), then we have a HOF-caliber pitcher on our team.

I do agree with others that we need to let go of the Shelby Miller thing.

 

Yup. Complete outlier that was a consensus moronic overpay by a terrible front office.

Yes, because that made up metric WAR means everything and is the be all, end all to all baseball conversations and who will/won't win.

To emphasize this, I saw a graphic on MLBN yesterday. Th last 2 seasons Mets are under .500 without Cespedes in the line up, and about 40 over with him in the line up.

 

One player can cause a lot of change.

I think I'm done here for now. More mouth breathers here than on twitter. I remember when this was an intelligent baseball site. Not sure what happened.

Boston just traded Shaw to Milwaukee for relief help. Not sure if that makes Moncada less likely to be traded.

 

I doubt it has any impact, they still have Holt, Panda, and Hanley to play three spots (3B, 1B, and DH) plus they are in on EE. The OF is full with Benitendi, JBJ, and Betts, so Moncada doesn't really have a roster spot, even if they find a taker for Panda.

Someone email Hahn that article on Giolito from Fangraphs (only partially kidding)

Yup. Complete outlier that was a consensus moronic overpay by a terrible front office.

 

Yeah, it was an overpay for Miller, who never deserved the ace label, but it still seemingly provides a reasonable enough template for dealing a legit ace.

Yeah, it was an overpay for Miller, who never deserved the ace label, but it still seemingly provides a reasonable enough template for dealing a legit ace.

 

The hard part to recreate is inciarte. When deal is done I'm optimistic deal will be hybrid of Miller/Hamels. Robles is about where Swanson was and Giolito better than any Jamel's received.

I think I'm done here for now. More mouth breathers here than on twitter. I remember when this was an intelligent baseball site. Not sure what happened.

Come on Jimmy, it's just the status quo for the board my man. If people want to freak over a package that starts with Gio/Robles without knowing the rest, let em because it's a fun read for guys like us. I like Gio/Robles as a starting point so I'll wait and see what the rest of the package looks like before I just the potential trade that he yet to happen.

 

Just keep in mind that some were complaining when there weren't Sale rumors circulating an now there are and people are still complaining. Such is the life of the victim role players.

 

Besides Jimmy, you can't leave, the board needs people like you to maintain the balance.

The hard part to recreate is inciarte. When deal is done I'm optimistic deal will be hybrid of Miller/Hamels. Robles is about where Swanson was and Giolito better than any Jamel's received.

 

Exactly. I know it's not a position player, but a valuable ML player like Ross would certainly elevate the Sale package well beyond the Miller package.

But at the same time, if you're the White Sox and you're trading Chris Sale, you just can't settle. Either you get your guy (Turner) or you hold on to Sale/trade him elsewhere. Someone will bite eventually. If they don't (unlikely), then we have a HOF-caliber pitcher on our team.

Yeah, but Sale's value can't necessarily be based on one anomalous precedent. You've got to look at a variety of things, which admittedly, are quite limited, which is partially why this is not a simple transaction.

Yes, because that made up metric WAR means everything and is the be all, end all to all baseball conversations and who will/won't win.

Is this Hawk's account?

Been thinking this morning about Giolito and can't help but be reminded of Gavin Floyd. Although Floyd was approaching the former top prospct status when the Sox traded for him, their body frames and stuff is not that different. Both with straight fastballs in the low to mid 90's, great curve balls but trouble locating and change ups that need more development.

 

To answer your question; yes I think the Sox can turn Giolito's stuff into pitching and a better one than Floyd turned out to be. My hangup with Gio is the TJ surgery he had. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems that more times than not, one TJ surgery eventually leads to a second. That does stick in the back of my mind but his potential at 22 years old is just to good for me to object to.

 

I admit that I prefer a trade with Houston or Boston but I won't complain about a package that starts with Giolito and Robles from the Nat's.

If there is one thing that I, the person most down on the White Sox organization out of anyone I know, will give them credit for, it's preventing Tommy John Surgeries. There is, quite simply, no team better in the big leagues at preventing pitchers from going down with that injury. Whether it's Cooper or the training staff or both, the White Sox are an unbelievable outlier in how few TJS their pitchers undergo. I don't believe I have confidence in the White Sox developing players or pitchers right now, but if the White Sox say they can keep a guy away from TJS then that guy will not be having TJS with the White Sox.

 

You can apply that same rule to Sale, I think. I can't guarantee he won't be hit in the head by a baseball next season and have that cost him his career. But I don't worry about the TJS for him. He got probably as close as anyone, and then pulled through the arm soreness back in 2012 without tearing anything.

Exactly. I know it's not a position player, but a valuable ML player like Ross would certainly elevate the Sale package well beyond the Miller package.

 

Definitely elevates it. It's impossible to get too upset without knowing rest. It's a package one of two teams could put together so far. We just don't know the rest.