I think Sale's biggest problem is that no one has the balls to tell him "no". He seemed tired and worn out last night. The Red Sox should have had him skip a few more starts in the regular season to save his bullets, but I'm sure that everyone knows he would have thrown a temper tantrum.

I think Sale's biggest problem is that no one has the balls to tell him "no". He seemed tired and worn out last night. The Red Sox should have had him skip a few more starts in the regular season to save his bullets, but I'm sure that everyone knows he would have thrown a temper tantrum.

 

Well Kenny Williams did...

We've seen a team skip starts - still september slide

we've seen him pitch to contact - still september slide

we've seen him skip spring training - still september slide

 

His way of pitching has not led to injury like many predicted but maybe this is the weakness of it.

 

I still think it's bogus and he'll end up dominating a postseason and it won't matter.

 

But, Frank Thomas most of my childhood had that label. Postseason choker. I just think it's dumb. Celebrate the guys that have heroic moments but don't act like its an actual end all be all thing.

It would pretty sad if a healthy starting pitcher got shut down during the season, that may or may not help him in October. He made his starts and led baseball with only 214.1 innings. He just had a bad game.

It would pretty sad if a healthy starting pitcher got shut down during the season, that may or may not help him in October. He made his starts and led baseball with only 214.1 innings. He just had a bad game.

 

Honestly his last couple months haven’t been up to his standards. It’s not just a bad start, and it falls in line with what we have seen. He tires, giving him a little time to recover isn’t a terrible thing

Me neither but due to the team he is on, it's similar to Q for me where I want him to do well personally but want a first round exit from the Red Sox.

I can respect that, just hate the Astros more

Edited October 6, 20178 yr by Chicago White Sox

I don't think it really matters if a teammate had a problem with him, he was annoying to fans for good reason. Like him breaking his foot "jumping off a truck".

 

When Kopech actually is, you know, at the show and he misses games for doing that, I'm sure people will be annoyed then too.

 

I think this thread is dumb, but so is the "you can't hate sale unless you also hated everyone ever that also did things!"

 

Yea with Sale it was a cumulative thing. Breaking his foot in spring training stupidly horsing around. Helping to escalate the La Roche situation by taking the side of La Roche and publicly spatting with the GM. Cutting up the jerseys.

 

And all that is separate from the very real phenomenon, which we all saw, of him getting too amped up on the mound when he doesn't have his best stuff, over throwing, and making his stuff even worse because he's missing his spots by a good foot or more.

 

He's a red ass. I played the same way and although Sale has more talent in his left toe than I do in my whole body I can tell you I rarely played well angry.

Sample size is amazing. This is one start. His slider was flat, his velocity was still good and he was missing his spots a bit. Thats the difference in missing bats and looking like Cy Young. Lets give him a few starts before we declare him to be a bust in the playoffs.

 

 

Pretty sure they mentioned that Sale pitched the most innings in baseball and got through the 7th more than any other pitcher this year. Our Sox used to periodically skip starts for him to keep him fresh, guess Boston decided not to follow that and are feeling the consequences. I like Chris and I think he will come out and shut the door if he gets another start but you can't say a guy sucks after 1 post season start after leading the league in those categories for the 1st time in his career, Sale will be on the bump in October many more times over the next few years, then we can judge his playoff stones

Yea with Sale it was a cumulative thing. Breaking his foot in spring training stupidly horsing around. Helping to escalate the La Roche situation by taking the side of La Roche and publicly spatting with the GM. Cutting up the jerseys.

 

And all that is separate from the very real phenomenon, which we all saw, of him getting too amped up on the mound when he doesn't have his best stuff, over throwing, and making his stuff even worse because he's missing his spots by a good foot or more.

 

He's a red ass. I played the same way and although Sale has more talent in his left toe than I do in my whole body I can tell you I rarely played well angry.

That's a cool perspective on playing angry. The 'only' thing I didn't like about Sale here was he's one of those Verlander (in his prime) types who won't take coaching. He'd be mad as hell if Robin dare take him out of a game early. In Chris' mind early sometimes was the 8th or 9th.

 

The rest of your post however shows how different I am from this board. I didn't mind the LaRoche kid being in the clubhouse. Not at all. And I didn't mind Sale cutting up the jerseys. I mean who cares? Those jerseys were hideous. Read this story. Sale didn't think he could physically pitch in that monstrocity jersey. He expressed his concern beforehand. Did you all want him to get hurt pitching in the jersey? He knew he was going to pay for the jerseys. Did he inconvenience any of the players? Not at all. he saved them from wearing those ridiculous jerseys. Not saying you, chitownsportsfan, but I tire of the majority on here backing our questionable front office all the time. Sale gave the front office a chance to reverse its decision on using those jerseys OR they could have worn them on a day Sale didn't pitch.

 

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/07/chris-sale...ss-first-jersey

Edited October 6, 20178 yr by greg775

Sample size is amazing. This is one start. His slider was flat, his velocity was still good and he was missing his spots a bit. Thats the difference in missing bats and looking like Cy Young. Lets give him a few starts before we declare him to be a bust in the playoffs.

Exactly. If Red Sox fans are blasting him they are idiots. He got lit up. It happens. Like you said let's see what happens next time.

In some respects, it’s warranted. The Red Sox didn’t acquire Sale to record 300 K’s in the regular season. They acquired him to be their ace and No. 1 ace in the playoffs. When you don’t even give your team much of a chance on the mound, you’ve failed, big time.

 

I disagree with your first point. David Price is hurt, Porcello was obviously coming back to Earth, they needed someone to take over the ace role during the regular season, and he did amazing. Without him, they are in the wild card game at best and he is signed for a couple more years. Sure there is a little disappointment, but they weren't some 100 win juggernaut without him looking for the one playoff puzzle to win it all, he was a very vital piece to them holding off the Yankees.

Kluber lit up. He must have no balls.

Sale has not beaten the Yankees yet this year. Some have been no decisions but some players have that kind of luck.

Sale has not beaten the Yankees yet this year. Some have been no decisions but some players have that kind of luck.

Pitching wins are trash. Who gives a crap about them?

Pitching wins are trash. Who gives a crap about them?

 

OK.......................................

Kluber lit up. He must have no balls.

 

 

 

You have no...no marbles!

OK.......................................

What does a pitching win tell you about anything?

More likely he doesn't have the stamina for playoff baseball...at least the way he's pitched in the regular season.

Jesus, guys. He just didn't have it. It's not about "playoff baseball". It's a bad start in one game against a high powered offense.

I know Sale has an unlikeable quality, but I really don't understand why Sox fans are rooting against him. He was great here. He tended to run out of gas, but I don't think it's lack of effort or preparation. It could be that he's tired. More likely that he gets too hyped up. He's pitched one game and wasn't good.

 

Clemens, Maddox, Glavine - all 300 game winners who struggled in the post season. Barry Bonds was bad in the playoffs. There's a sample size issue here.

 

I'd love to see Sale dominate his next start. But, I would like to see the BoSox lose the game in extra innings.

Edited October 9, 20178 yr by Middle Buffalo

What does a pitching win tell you about anything?

 

Well, considering at least one pitcher records a win every game, I would say it tells you a team won the game.

 

That's my smartass answer to your comment anyway.

Edited October 9, 20178 yr by soxfan2014

What does a pitching win tell you about anything?

 

pitching wins looking at an entire career dont mean all that much. But knowing that Sale hasnt been able to beat the Indians in the regular season(and they roughed him up) is kind of important going into the playoffs

What does a pitching win tell you about anything?

 

The pendulum has swung WAY too far here. While it isn't the most important stat, if you are getting a high number of wins it means you are pitching well enough to give your team a chance to win on a regular basis, while you can get some statistical flukes built into that such as the year Nolan Ryan led the league in ERA, but went 8-16, it is usually a pretty good indicator that a pitcher is doing two things. They are not giving up a lot of runs, and they are pitching relatively late into games. Last I checked, those are two pretty good things to get out of your starting pitcher on a regular basis.

The pendulum has swung WAY too far here. While it isn't the most important stat, if you are getting a high number of wins it means you are pitching well enough to give your team a chance to win on a regular basis, while you can get some statistical flukes built into that such as the year Nolan Ryan led the league in ERA, but went 8-16, it is usually a pretty good indicator that a pitcher is doing two things. They are not giving up a lot of runs, and they are pitching relatively late into games. Last I checked, those are two pretty good things to get out of your starting pitcher on a regular basis.

 

I agree. While better stats are predictive, and better stats exist to compare player value, I still think wins and RBi tell a story about who was important to an individual season.

 

What did Cliff Politte being 7-1 out of the bullpen in 05 mean? We were always in the game witha penchant to score late, and that's what I remember, the grinding out of games and rarely making a mistake.

 

The win is definitely arbitrary, but so what. So are round numbers.