Sucks a year of control for Reyes was already burned last year.

I don't think it matters because we aren't going to get Reyes, but realistically you could put him in the minors for a month or two to get back to pitching and then he would be on approximately the same service time amount as Giolito and Lopez.

Flaherty has the look of a guy who could develop into a mid rotation starter eventually, but I would certainly need more to ship Abreu off. I don't love the Cardinals position player prospect crop right now to say what other pieces I would need.

I think this is where I differ with a lot of people. I love Kelly and O'Neil and both are kinda blocked at the ML level and are probably ready to take the jump.

Please Stanton, choose the Giants. The White Sox and Cardinals match up too good for a trade.

I think this is where I differ with a lot of people. I love Kelly and O'Neil and both are kinda blocked at the ML level and are probably ready to take the jump.

 

If St. Louis makes Kelly available that could be interesting.

 

O'Neill it depends on what you think of his hit tool playing at the mlb level?

 

https://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2017/9/17/1631...offseason-trade

 

St. Louis has an outfield logjam and should be motivated to deal some of that

I think this is where I differ with a lot of people. I love Kelly and O'Neil and both are kinda blocked at the ML level and are probably ready to take the jump.

I really don’t see a need to add O’Neil. The system is absolutely loaded with OFs, acquiring him would be another example of diminishing returns. Kelly is definitely interesting though. He’d be pretty much a must in any Abreu deal.

I really don’t see a need to add O’Neil. The system is absolutely loaded with OFs, acquiring him would be another example of diminishing returns. Kelly is definitely interesting though. He’d be pretty much a must in any Abreu deal.

 

Loaded with OF may be a bit of an exaggeration. We've got Eloy and Rutherford (who is a long way away), and a handful of fringe guys.

Loaded with OF may be a bit of an exaggeration. We've got Eloy and Rutherford (who is a long way away), and a handful of fringe guys.

Robert is a fringe guy?

Robert is a fringe guy?

Not even top 10 in baseball.

Not even top 10 in baseball.

Soon enough hopefully

 

And I’m a huge fan of Demonico, have considered him a potential core piece since early last year. I will say this, I feel confident we have enough guys in the system to fill our corner spots long-term, but CF is potentially a question mark if Robert can’t stick there. So I’m more than ok with adding an OF if we find one that’s a legit CF, but I wouldn’t move a guy as important/valuable as Abreu for a corner guy.

Robert is a fringe guy?

 

Obviously not a fringe guy..momentarily brain lapse on my part, but still...Rutherford and Robert are a long way away (until they prove they aren't). I wouldn't shy away from acquiring talented OF prospects just yet. I would, however, put LHP and 3B as a higher priority.

If we traded for Kelly, why not eventually flip one of Collins/Zavala for pitching? Or, even include one in the Kelly deal to maximize the return.

 

I personally think the trade would be redundant, as Collins is a fine prospect, but pulling the trigger would cause a prospect logjam.

Soon enough hopefully

 

And I’m a huge fan of Demonico, have considered him a potential core piece since early last year. I will say this, I feel confident we have enough guys in the system to fill our corner spots long-term, but CF is potentially a question mark if Robert can’t stick there. So I’m more than ok with adding an OF if we find one that’s a legit CF, but I wouldn’t move a guy as important/valuable as Abreu for a corner guy.

 

I hope your right but I am doubtful. Next year is a big year for him. He was a career .260--ish hitter in the minors with limited power. Certainly he has a chance to get PA with the limited roster. He looks to me to be a utility player/4th outfielder who can play a few spots and will be a .250 hitter. But he is still 25 so maybe he has a solid spring and wins starting position.

 

If we traded for Kelly, why not eventually flip one of Collins/Zavala for pitching? Or, even include one in the Kelly deal to maximize the return.

 

I personally think the trade would be redundant, as Collins is a fine prospect, but pulling the trigger would cause a prospect logjam.

 

agreed. Especially with the Castillo signing, not sure catcher is our top priority. I am not shying away from Kelly, but just not sure that should be the Sox focus.

I hope your right but I am doubtful. Next year is a big year for him. He was a career .260--ish hitter in the minors with limited power. Certainly he has a chance to get PA with the limited roster. He looks to me to be a utility player/4th outfielder who can play a few spots and will be a .250 hitter. But he is still 25 so maybe he has a solid spring and wins starting position.

 

I would say he's already a lock for a spot next season.

Yeah, Kelly would necessitate trading one of Omar or Smith, if not both.

 

I'd focus on Flaherty, Perez and an OF

I hope your right but I am doubtful. Next year is a big year for him. He was a career .260--ish hitter in the minors with limited power. Certainly he has a chance to get PA with the limited roster. He looks to me to be a utility player/4th outfielder who can play a few spots and will be a .250 hitter. But he is still 25 so maybe he has a solid spring and wins starting position.

 

FWIW, even with some regression factored in, his steamer projection for next season is pretty solid. They currently have him in line for .248/.328/.434 with 19 HR, .326 wOBA, and a 103+ wRC. It's not star production, but in a rebuild, I am happy to let him show the club if he is part of the core moving forward.

Yeah, Kelly would necessitate trading one of Omar or Smith, if not both.

 

I'd focus on Flaherty, Perez and an OF

 

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/if-not-stan...cbe99163c8.html

 

This article seems to suggest something in the realm of Flaherty + Piscotty + Bader might be just short of what it would take from the Cardinals fan perspective. Personally I would want more in order to deal Abreu.

 

If I am St. Louis I would be very interested in acquiring Abreu if the cost was only prospects. They have a glut of outfielders and Flaherty is expendable.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, Kelly would necessitate trading one of Omar or Smith, if not both.

 

I'd focus on Flaherty, Perez and an OF

Definitely both, given that we'd have Castillo/Kelly in the Majors and Collins/Zavala ready relatively soon. It's just not a position of need at this point.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/if-not-stan...cbe99163c8.html

 

This article seems to suggest something in the realm of Flaherty + Piscotty + Bader might be just short of what it would take from the Cardinals fan perspective. Personally I would want more in order to deal Abreu.

 

If I am St. Louis I would be very interested in acquiring Abreu if the cost was only prospects. They have a glut of outfielders and Flaherty is expendable.

 

 

No matter what kind of good stuff we are smoking there is no way you get that package for Abreu.

Yeah, Kelly would necessitate trading one of Omar or Smith, if not both.

 

I'd focus on Flaherty, Perez and an OF

Who is Perez? Delvin? Sounds like his stock has been tanking. I believe Fangraphs didn’t even have him as a top 20 guy in their recent update.

No matter what kind of good stuff we are smoking there is no way you get that package for Abreu.

 

Why?

 

Flaherty's numbers are a little misleading, as his 2.74 ERA in 15 AAA starts looks more pedestrian with a 4.10 FIP and 4.06 xFIP. His cup of coffee at the mlb level did not go very well either. He's still a quality prospect, but I see mid rotation ceiling for him.

 

Piscotty I don't see us trading for as he was signed long term and is coming off a bad season.

 

Bader is overrated in my book, as he really does not have any standout tools. He seems to be a guy that ends up being a good fourth outfielder on a contender, but I don't think he has the bat to be a corner OF regular on a championship team.

 

I'm not trying to tear these guys down, but who out of these guys do you feel is too much for the Cardinals to sacrifice for an impact bat?

Why?

 

Flaherty's numbers are a little misleading, as his 2.74 ERA in 15 AAA starts looks more pedestrian with a 4.10 FIP and 4.06 xFIP. His cup of coffee at the mlb level did not go very well either. He's still a quality prospect, but I see mid rotation ceiling for him.

 

Piscotty I don't see us trading for as he was signed long term and is coming off a bad season.

 

Bader is overrated in my book, as he really does not have any standout tools. He seems to be a guy that ends up being a good fourth outfielder on a contender, but I don't think he has the bat to be a corner OF regular on a championship team.

 

I'm not trying to tear these guys down, but who out of these guys do you feel is too much for the Cardinals to sacrifice for an impact bat?

 

I agree with all 3 of your assumptions with those players.. My problem is that all 3 of those with those projections are more valuable than 2 seasons of abreu. That's 3 major leaguers. I'd expect something like Flaherty and Bader and that's about the top end but not all three.. Hopefully I'm wrong obviously lol

Edited December 5, 20178 yr by cjgalloway

I'm glad Hahn is standing firm in demanding a haul. Abreu still puts up MVP type numbers...so settling for a Cardinals decent prospect and a couple of leftover outfielders ain't cuttin' it in my book. If somebody wants JA...they'll have to cough it up.

I'm glad Hahn is standing firm in demanding a haul. Abreu still puts up MVP type numbers...so settling for a Cardinals decent prospect and a couple of leftover outfielders ain't cuttin' it in my book. If somebody wants JA...they'll have to cough it up.

 

I think Hahn will keep him. I saw a piece this weekend in Boston with a beat-writer talking about Abreu for JBJ. He said there are a bunch of IB/DH guys availableand the market will restrict their value. So Hahn is better Keeping Jose since he certainly seems to thrive in Chicago.

 

Well there are a bunch of insanely expensive or mediocre dh/1b types available. Sullivan over at FG said he thinks Abreu has more trade value than Stanton, given Stantons contract and the all important opt out.

Edited December 6, 20178 yr by chitownsportsfan