Shields attracting trade interest

[southsider2k5]

37 minutes ago, Replacement Level Poster said:

The entire starting OF yesterday, Tilson, Engle, Trayce. Matt Skole hit cleanup. I’ll give Hahn credit this is no half hearted tank effort and if your going to do something may as well go all in on it. 

Pretty gutsy of Hahn to injure key players to make this happen. 

[Lillian]

If the Sox intend to sign one veteran, to be in next year's rotation, it will likely require a multi year contract, for anyone decent. By picking up Shields' option, they limit the commitment to one year, which should be ideal to bridge the gap to 2020, when Cease, Hansen, Dunning and Stevens should be ready to join Kopech, Lopez and Giolito.

[Chicago White Sox]

17 minutes ago, Lillian said:

If the Sox intend to sign one veteran, to be in next year's rotation, it will likely require a multi year contract, for anyone decent. By picking up Shields' option, they limit the commitment to one year, which should be ideal to bridge the gap to 2020, when Cease, Hansen, Dunning and Stevens should be ready to join Kopech, Lopez and Giolito.

Assuming 37 year old James Shields will be decent next year takes a huge leap of faith.  I’m not even sure he’ll be decent a month or two from now as his HR rate looks ripe for regression.  Honestly, picking up his $16M option would be a firable offense IMO.

[Lillian]

7 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Assuming 37 year old James Shields will be decent next year takes a huge leap of faith.  I’m not even sure he’ll be decent a month or two from now as his HR rate looks ripe for regression.  Honestly, picking up his $16M option would be a firable offense IMO.

What kind of contract do you expect it will take to sign someone like Santana, for example?

[Chicago White Sox]

6 minutes ago, Lillian said:

What kind of contract do you expect it will take to sign someone like Santana, for example?

I have no idea, but I really don’t see the reason to add a veteran starter next year.  Rodon & Lopez are locks.  Kopech will be up after two weeks or so.  That leaves two spots for Giolito, Stephens, Covey, etc.  Why would we want to block one of those kids when we’re not going to be truly going for it next year?

Edited June 3, 2018 by Chicago White Sox

[Lillian]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I have no idea, but I really don’t see the reason to add a veteran starter next year.  Rodon & Lopez are locks.  Kopech will be up after two weeks or so.  That leaves two spots for Giolito, Stephens, Covey, etc.  Why would we want to block one of those kids when we’re not going to be truly going for it next year?

Sounds alright to me. Maybe they'll consider Rodon the veteran presence. Teams rarely go with 5 very inexperienced starters. Where we disagree is in your assumption that they won't be "going for it next year". It will be the last year of Abreu and Avi's contracts, and with the addition of Eloy, they have enough pieces, providing that they get good enough pitching.

Edited June 3, 2018 by Lillian
add a thought.

[BlackSox13]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Pretty gutsy of Hahn to injure key players to make this happen. 

Hahn is a genius. His ponzi tinfoil tank scheme is working out better than anything Dr.Evil could have concocted.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Lillian said:

Sounds alright to me. Maybe they'll consider Rodon the veteran presence. Teams rarely go with 5 very inexperienced starters. Where we disagree is in your assumption that they won't be "going for it next year". It will be the last year of Abreu and Avi's contracts, and with the addition of Eloy, they have enough pieces, providing that they get good enough pitching.

If they’re going for it and want to add a veteran pitcher, I hope they plan on adding someone significantly better than 37 year old James Shields.

[wrathofhahn]

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

If they’re going for it and want to add a veteran pitcher, I hope they plan on adding someone significantly better than 37 year old James Shields.

This unless he goes on a tear before the deadline it's hard to see us getting much of anything.

I'd honestly rather just keep him rather then burn through some young players service time.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, wrathofhahn said:

This unless he goes on a tear before the deadline it's hard to see us getting much of anything.

I'd honestly rather just keep him rather then burn through some young players service time.

I assume you’re referring to the 2018 season and the not the option talk your quote is referring to.  But if you’re doing service time games with second tier prospects like Stephens then you’re doing the rebuild wrong.  Now is the time to see what you have in guys like him & Covey.  If you don’t want to call up Kopech that’s fine, but a second half rotation of Rodon, Lopez, Covey, Stephens & Giolito is already full.  And if you need to send Lucas down, just give his spot to Santiago.  Shields isn’t really needed for any particular reason.

[wrathofhahn]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I assume you’re referring to the 2018 season and the not the option talk your quote is referring to.  But if you’re doing service time games with second tier prospects like Stephens then you’re doing the rebuild wrong.  Now is the time to see what you have in guys like him & Covey.  If you don’t want to call up Kopech that’s fine, but a second half rotation of Rodon, Lopez, Covey, Stephens & Giolito is already full.  And if you need to send Lucas down, just give his spot to Santiago.  Shields isn’t really needed for any particular reason.

I misread the quote should have clicked on the previous convo to get the proper context. My bad.

Yes, I meant for this year only. Just to go into a little more detail we really have very little major league SP depth. To me anyways I'd rather preserve the extra year of control of our top pitching prospects (may next year) and not burn their service time then get some prospect that isn't really a prospect.

For top SP that extra year would be valued somewhere around 20-25 million. You look at what Hughes went for which was essentially a 1st round comp for 7.25 million and I just don't see the upside.

[greg775]

6 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I have no idea, but I really don’t see the reason to add a veteran starter next year.  Rodon & Lopez are locks.  Kopech will be up after two weeks or so.  That leaves two spots for Giolito, Stephens, Covey, etc.  Why would we want to block one of those kids when we’re not going to be truly going for it next year?

It's going to be interesting to see who you want to pay. I know ... Machado. You are one of the fans who wanna pay Machado whatever it takes and nobody else makes squat, right? Some of you guys seem to live for a low payroll. I live for Ws during bad seasons, good seasons, rebuild seasons. I may have you mis-pegged, but you seem against paying anybody cept the Machado, Harper, guys like that.

[Chicago White Sox]

26 minutes ago, greg775 said:

It's going to be interesting to see who you want to pay. I know ... Machado. You are one of the fans who wanna pay Machado whatever it takes and nobody else makes squat, right? Some of you guys seem to live for a low payroll. I live for Ws during bad seasons, good seasons, rebuild seasons. I may have you mis-pegged, but you seem against paying anybody cept the Machado, Harper, guys like that.

I’m against wasting our financial resources on moderate upgrades when we’re not ready to win.  I fully supported the Castillo signing because we had a massive gap at catcher in our organization.  Signing Moustakas to block Yolmer or picking Shields’ option to block Jordan Stephens would be very stupid at this stage of the rebuild IMO. When the time is right, hopefully by 2020, I fully expect $120M+ payrolls.  And yes, I’d rather spend my money on young, impact free agents rather than the next Melky Cabrera & Adam LaRoche.  But I’m not against rolling the dice on certain 30+ year old free agents and have been one of the loudest advocates for extending Abreu despite his age.

[EvilJester99]

If the Sox can get anything for Shields you take it and run!

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, EvilJester99 said:

If the Sox can get anything for Shields you take it and run!

Preferably for a recent LatAm signing that has yet to play stateside with interesting tools & major league bloodlines 😉

[ChiSox59]

23 hours ago, Lillian said:

If the Sox intend to sign one veteran, to be in next year's rotation, it will likely require a multi year contract, for anyone decent. By picking up Shields' option, they limit the commitment to one year, which should be ideal to bridge the gap to 2020, when Cease, Hansen, Dunning and Stevens should be ready to join Kopech, Lopez and Giolito.

Delete this post.  

[Eminor3rd]

23 hours ago, Lillian said:

If the Sox intend to sign one veteran, to be in next year's rotation, it will likely require a multi year contract, for anyone decent. By picking up Shields' option, they limit the commitment to one year, which should be ideal to bridge the gap to 2020, when Cease, Hansen, Dunning and Stevens should be ready to join Kopech, Lopez and Giolito.

I see where you're going here, but I think you can get a Miguel Gonzalez type for 2-3m on a one year deal.

[southsider2k5]

Just now, Eminor3rd said:

I see where you're going here, but I think you can get a Miguel Gonzalez type for 2-3m on a one year deal.

Exactly.  And it isn't like we got some great history with Shields.  It wouldn't shock me at all if he went right back to being the exact same garbage pitcher he has been for the last two years.  As soon as we can send him out of Chicago, we should.

[wrathofhahn]

5 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Exactly.  And it isn't like we got some great history with Shields.  It wouldn't shock me at all if he went right back to being the exact same garbage pitcher he has been for the last two years.  As soon as we can send him out of Chicago, we should.

Who is going to offer anything for him unless he sort of goes on a tear and has a 3.50 ish era what are we going to get.

Miguel had a 4.31 ERA when he was moved with garbage stuff. We got Tiquan Forbes. I'd rather perserve our pitchers service time. Now if there is a roster crunch with Rondon then sure move him

[pcq]

22 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’m against wasting our financial resources on moderate upgrades when we’re not ready to win.  I fully supported the Castillo signing because we had a massive gap at catcher in our organization.  Signing Moustakas to block Yolmer or picking Shields’ option to block Jordan Stephens would be very stupid at this stage of the rebuild IMO. When the time is right, hopefully by 2020, I fully expect $120M+ payrolls.  And yes, I’d rather spend my money on young, impact free agents rather than the next Melky Cabrera & Adam LaRoche.  But I’m not against rolling the dice on certain 30+ year old free agents and have been one of the loudest advocates for extending Abreu despite his age.

Melky was hardly a bust. I don't see how Giolito can start much longer which leaves one open spot. 

[southsider2k5]

32 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

Who is going to offer anything for him unless he sort of goes on a tear and has a 3.50 ish era what are we going to get.

Miguel had a 4.31 ERA when he was moved with garbage stuff. We got Tiquan Forbes. I'd rather perserve our pitchers service time. Now if there is a roster crunch with Rondon then sure move him

That is the entire premise of these reports.  Teams have interest in Shields. If we get back a Forbes level player back, Shields can jump in the minivan and I will haul him to ORD.

[Balta1701]

On 6/4/2018 at 6:26 PM, pcq said:

Melky was hardly a bust. I don't see how Giolito can start much longer which leaves one open spot. 

The White Sox paid Melky Cabrera $39 million and got a grand total of 1.9 fWAR out of him. At that rate, Bryce Harper would be a $100 million a year player.

Edit: At that rate, Mike Trout is on the verge of a $200 million season.

[Dominikk85]

On 6/3/2018 at 6:12 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

Under no circumstance should we pick up a $16M option for Shields.  That would be absolute insanity.  While he hasn’t been terrible this year, he’s still not good and could easily be replaced with a less costly and/or better option.

on the other hand the sox have one of the lowest payrolls and won't sign anyone next off season, so they don't really need financial flexibility yet. I would trade him if I get anything and not pull the option but the salary hardly matters in this situation

[GreenSox]

On 6/4/2018 at 7:26 PM, pcq said:

Melky was hardly a bust. I don't see how Giolito can start much longer which leaves one open spot. 

Melky was a complete bust.  When the Sox needed him in 2015, he couldn't hit;  and he never could defend.
If they want Shields back, they can bring him back on Gonzalez-like contract.  Affording the option isn't the point:  they can't pay him $16 million.

[caulfield12]

5 hours ago, dominik-keul@gmx.de said:

on the other hand the sox have one of the lowest payrolls and won't sign anyone next off season, so they don't really need financial flexibility yet. I would trade him if I get anything and not pull the option but the salary hardly matters in this situation

They’re going to have to start adding EACH offseason begin with this one...putting all of the focus on now waiting for Arenado and the 2019 class, when 2 of the Top 5-6 big market clubs are going to exhaust the majority of their FA spending pools on Machado and Harper would be pretty dumb.

There were so many bargains available that a team close to contending (like the Twins or M’s this year) could have gotten over the top...but, of course, it would have required the RIGHT set of FA moves, which the White Sox have been unable to come up with now for nearly a decade (hitting on a majority of their $5+ million/multi-year acquisitions).