White Sox select Nick Madrigal with 4th overall pick

[greg775]

8 minutes ago, joejoedairy said:

Well, he's played 2nd base this entire season. His coach said that it would be tougher for their other SS to handle 2b so Madrigal made the switch, but that he certainly could play SS and probably anywhere on the diamond. 

Thanks for the facts. No problem moving him, then.

[soxfan49]

9 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I know he's an employee of the Sox now, but has he played ss all his life? Just asking. I know if I were Madrigal, and knew I was gonna be a top pick, in the interview process or before signing I'd let the team know I'm not moving from my position ... EVER. I know nothing about the guy; maybe he's played a lot of positions and it's no big deal to him.

"I won't play any position other than the one I play now, so if you want me to move, don't draft me." That's a great way to lose hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars. The difference between the 1st pick and 5th pick can sometimes be $2+ million. Good plan, greg.

[wrathofhahn]

15 hours ago, BlackSox13 said:

Exactly. Madrigal has all the tools to make a great table setter at the top of the lineup. 

Do you draft a player top five to be light hitting SS or below average hitting 2B? I don't think so.

Drafting gamers from college is stupid whether it be the MLB, NFL, or NBA. It's all about how they project at the next level.

[wrathofhahn]

13 minutes ago, joejoedairy said:

Well, he's played 2nd base this entire season. His coach said that it would be tougher for their other SS to handle 2b so Madrigal made the switch, but that he certainly could play SS and probably anywhere on the diamond. 

If you don't mind seeing 1-2 balls a game fly over his head that other SS would have caught.

[Bob Sacamano]

33 minutes ago, tray said:

Hostetler said it didn't matter what position Madrigal  plays and in any event that decision  will be up to Renteria and Hahn 3 or 4 years down the road.

3 or 4 years down the road? Not sure if he was serious about that timeline, but in any case, I do not think that view of the rebuild window is shared by most Sox fans.  I see most posters most often referring to next year or the year after for the Sox to compete, not 3-4 years from now.

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/video/nick-hostetler-nick-madrigal-can-play-gold-glove-level

He doesn't have to be up right when they are competitive again, which is what you are implying. He will be up when he is ready and that could theoretically be 3-4 years (not saying it will or that I think it will). Teams still want a nice flow of talent through the system even when they are good.

Edited June 6, 2018 by soxfan2014

[ptatc]

11 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

Do you draft a player top five to be light hitting SS or below average hitting 2B? I don't think so.

Drafting gamers from college is stupid whether it be the MLB, NFL, or NBA. It's all about how they project at the next level.

He is not going to be a below average hitter. He's going to be a really good hitter just not with the HR power. He can still get to an .800 OPS with on base skills and doubles power, if he plays to his potential.

[ptatc]

10 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

If you don't mind seeing 1-2 balls a game fly over his head that other SS would have caught.

What is the average height of an MLB SS? I doubt it's more than 6 foot. I wonder what his vertical is and if that may make up a couple pf inches. 

What if he gets to more laterally because of his speed that others would not have been able to get to? Does that even out? 

[Bob Sacamano]

Yeah, you don't have to hit 20-30+ homers to be considered a good hitter. Also, he ball being juiced at the MLB level makes me unconcerned about smaller guys hitting homers. He could definitely end up hitting anywhere between 10-20 homers and I wouldn't be shocked. Tim Anderson is on pace to hit over 30 for Christ sake.

[tray]

10 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

He doesn't have to be up right when they are competitive again, which is what you are implying. He will be up when he is ready and that could theoretically be 3-4 years (not saying it will or that I think it will). Teams still want a nice flow of talent through the system even when they are good.

If Hostetler implied or rather meant exactly what he said, he probably should have selected Kelenic.

3-4 years? Come on.  We need a third basemen with power in the next year or two.  We can't wait 3-4 years to play musical chairs with Moncada, Anderson and Madrigal in the infield.  "Who's on second" is now the Sox version of" who's on first."

 

[Bob Sacamano]

2 minutes ago, tray said:

If Hostetler implied or rather meant exactly what he said, he probably should have selected Kelenic.

3-4 years? Come on.  We need a third basemen with power in the next year or two.  We can't wait 3-4 years to play musical chairs with Moncada, Anderson and Madrigal in the infield.  "Who's on second" is now the Sox version of" who's on first."

 

And drafting Madrigal now doesn't prevent them from acquiring or signing a third basemen with power in "the next year or two." If they drafted someone who fit that profile, you're talking about that player coming up within the next 2-3 years anyway most likely.

Edited June 6, 2018 by soxfan2014

[wrathofhahn]

2 minutes ago, ptatc said:

What is the average height of an MLB SS? I doubt it's more than 6 foot. I wonder what his vertical is and if that may make up a couple pf inches. 

What if he gets to more laterally because of his speed that others would not have been able to get to? Does that even out? 

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/219051906/shortstops-bigger-taller-cal-revolution

So the average is 6-2 or 6-3 or 5 to 6 inches taller.

Which is why a bunch of people are projecting him to move to 2nd.

[soxfan49]

Maybe Madrigal crushes it in the minors and is a big piece of a trade that nets the Sox a guy like Arenado down the road.

[BigHurt3515]

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

I know he's an employee of the Sox now, but has he played ss all his life? Just asking. I know if I were Madrigal, and knew I was gonna be a top pick, in the interview process or before signing I'd let the team know I'm not moving from my position ... EVER. I know nothing about the guy; maybe he's played a lot of positions and it's no big deal to him.

You are a real team player Greg

[BlackSox13]

51 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

Do you draft a player top five to be light hitting SS or below average hitting 2B? I don't think so.

Drafting gamers from college is stupid whether it be the MLB, NFL, or NBA. It's all about how they project at the next level.

You don't think so but obviously the White Sox and their scouts think otherwise.

Who would you have drafted?

Edited June 6, 2018 by BlackSox13

[soxfan49]

5 minutes ago, BigHurt3515 said:

You are a real dope Greg

Fixed

[Dick Allen]

That is out of line.

[BlackSox13]

33 minutes ago, tray said:

If Hostetler implied or rather meant exactly what he said, he probably should have selected Kelenic.

3-4 years? Come on.  We need a third basemen with power in the next year or two.  We can't wait 3-4 years to play musical chairs with Moncada, Anderson and Madrigal in the infield.  "Who's on second" is now the Sox version of" who's on first."

 

So the Sox need a power hitting third baseman in the next year or two but should have drafted a high school outfielder?

[Dick Allen]

I really liked Madrigal for a long time. I started reading about him last year. Back in the day, I was hoping the Sox took Barry Bonds and Robin Ventura,not because of my superior scouting ability, just from write ups and scouting reports, and in Bonds case, bloodlines. They fucked up passing on Bonds, but they hit the jackpot with Ventura . So maybe I am on to something, although I must admit, Carson Fulmer was the guy I wanted them to draft as well. I hope I go 3-1 instead of back to .500.

[ptatc]

50 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/219051906/shortstops-bigger-taller-cal-revolution

So the average is 6-2 or 6-3 or 5 to 6 inches taller.

Which is why a bunch of people are projecting him to move to 2nd.

The article says 6-1. I havent read anywhere that the reason for the gold glove 2B defense was because of height. 

[BlackSox13]

8 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I really liked Madrigal for a long time. I started reading about him last year. Back in the day, I was hoping the Sox took Barry Bonds and Robin Ventura,not because of my superior scouting ability, just from write ups and scouting reports, and in Bonds case, bloodlines. They fucked up passing on Bonds, but they hit the jackpot with Ventura . So maybe I am on to something, although I must admit, Carson Fulmer was the guy I wanted them to draft as well. I hope I go 3-1 instead of back to .500.

I think you are onto something, along with everyone else that likes the pick. Maybe I have my hopes up but I think we're going to like this pick more and more as Madrigal progresses through the minors and eventually into a White Sox uniform.

That would have been an interesting clubhouse with Bonds and Belle.

 

[almagest]

4 minutes ago, BlackSox13 said:

I think you are onto something, along with everyone else that likes the pick. Maybe I have my hopes up but I think we're going to like this pick more and more as Madrigal progresses through the minors and eventually into a White Sox uniform.

That would have been an interesting clubhouse with Bonds and Belle.

 

I know he went to SF in '93 but imagine the '93 and '94 Sox with Bonds... he had an OPS+ of 206 and was worth 10 WAR in '93.

[wrathofhahn]

1 minute ago, ptatc said:

The article says 6-1. I havent read anywhere that the reason for the gold glove 2B defense was because of height. 

I misread the chart on my tablet for some reason I saw 74 inches. You are correct. That's still what 4 inches.

As far as 2B base goes I think more then anything the reason why teams have sort of have been focusing SS height is batters are pulling the ball more and more it's also why teams shift so much.

 

[bmags]

1 hour ago, wrathofhahn said:

If you don't mind seeing 1-2 balls a game fly over his head that other SS would have caught.

1-2 balls a game? That another SS would have caught? I feel like I watch a decent amount of baseball and the low liner that's catchable by a jumping SS isn't that common.

[Dominikk85]

8 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Adam Eaton hit one HR in 2014 and still put up a wRC+ of 118 & an OPS of .763.  I think that’s the type of player you are looking at if the HR power never comes, which is still fantastic when you account for Madrigal’s defense & speed on the bases.  If he can ever get to double digit HRs (which should be realistic with time) then we truly have something special.

I think to be special he needs to be more of a 15-18 homer guy. Eaton had a 360 babip that year, he became really good when he became a 15 homer guy.

If madrigal hits 12 homers he basically is Howie Kendrick. If he hits 15 he is Dustin Pedroia and with 20 he could be Ian kinsler. I'm sure he will hit 10+ homers, everyone can do that with the new ball. He isn't a slugger but not a pure slapper either.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, soxfan49 said:

Maybe Madrigal crushes it in the minors and is a big piece of a trade that nets the Sox a guy like Arenado down the road.

This is a great point too.  Even if we have depth talent backed up at specific positions, other teams will notice that.  These are the types of players you can use to get holes filled without putting a damper on a future depth chart.