So, I do hope sox re-evaluate offseason plans for these guys. A lot of our pitchers were clicking at end of last season only to return completely out of sync.

As someone who nearly fell off the abyss on Giolito, he has been pretty darn good lately and this is even more encouraging.   Seeing that he had some mechanical adjustments is hopeful this can be maintained (as well as shows competence in the staff).  The movement on some of those 2 seamers is great.  

Given his problems it's going to take a lot longer than a hot month to convince me he's really improving.  That said, it's obvious that whatever mental and physical problems he was going through earlier in the year, most of them related to his delivery, appear to have abated.

Finished the article, Sullivan makes a pretty good case for the mechanical changes with his arm slot having a big impact on his stuff.  I like it.  Maybe the Sox have finally figured out something that will work consistently for him.

Edited August 28, 20187 yr by chitownsportsfan

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

Some really nice movement on this 2-seamer

I'm just going to sit back and watch you guys discuss this. I'm saying nothing in response to all of the shit that I got for saying I still thought he could turn it around. 

13 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I'm just going to sit back and watch you guys discuss this. I'm saying nothing in response to all of the shit that I got for saying I still thought he could turn it around. 

He has a long way to go still

51 minutes ago, almagest said:

Some really nice movement on this 2-seamer

One thing I would disagree with article on, is that you can teach a follow through. They are correct that the follow through is indicative of previous parts of the motion. However if they focus on a good follow through it can clean up earlier faults.

If you've read my posts before, you've read that I focus on it. If the arm finishes too far from the post leg they had a lower arm slot and had a more twisting side to side motion. If the arm finishes near then post leg they had a higher overall arm slot are in more of a straight line motionand can control the pitch better.

32 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I'm just going to sit back and watch you guys discuss this. I'm saying nothing in response to all of the shit that I got for saying I still thought he could turn it around. 

You're a smart man Jack. I was one of those that thought Giolito should have been sent down at the height of his struggles. Happy to eat my words.

4 minutes ago, BlackSox13 said:

You're a smart man Jack. I was one of those that thought Giolito should have been sent down at the height of his struggles. Happy to eat my words.

I did get a few chuckles out of Fathom's response when Chicago White Sox and I were trying to meet up on Kopech day at the ballpark. CWS asked where I was and before I could answer, Fathom said I was hanging out in Giolito's locker. 

Edited August 28, 20187 yr by Jack Parkman

7 hours ago, BlackSox13 said:

You're a smart man Jack.

Eh... he's also said some asinine things too. He's hit and miss. I'll give him credit for Giolito though.

1 hour ago, SoxAce said:

Eh... he's also said some asinine things too. He's hit and miss. I'll give him credit for Giolito though.

I can't say much because I know I've said my fair of shit since I joined.

Wasn't one of Giolito's biggest problems that his four seamer had no break and hitters could time it up and square it up pretty easily? If so, it makes sense that a two seamer and a change adapted to look like the two seamer would solve a lot of his problems. 93 with good movement is a lot better than 95 straight as an arrow. I'm not sold on a turnaround yet, but all of the visual evidence shows a lot of positive indicators that we might yet get the Giolito we hoped for when he came in the Eaton deal.

Pitchers are what make baseball so fun/weird though. The Giorgio that succeeds will look very different than the one we acquired, and I mean unrecognizable from what was drafted.

24 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

Wasn't one of Giolito's biggest problems that his four seamer had no break and hitters could time it up and square it up pretty easily? If so, it makes sense that a two seamer and a change adapted to look like the two seamer would solve a lot of his problems. 93 with good movement is a lot better than 95 straight as an arrow. I'm not sold on a turnaround yet, but all of the visual evidence shows a lot of positive indicators that we might yet get the Giolito we hoped for when he came in the Eaton deal.

Whether he can ever regain his top prospect form remains to be seen and quite frankly I’m still skeptical.  Having said that, he’s clearly shown signs of sustainable improvement and to me look like he can at least be a quality #4 starter going forward.  And that’s awesome given where he was just a few months ago.  Hopefully he can continue take steps forward though.

He is also a bit lucky to be on a rebuilding team. A contending team wouldn't have been able to let him work through this. Hopefully he continues to improve.

I always said he would turn it around. Glad it's starting to happen

15 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

I'm just going to sit back and watch you guys discuss this. I'm saying nothing in response to all of the shit that I got for saying I still thought he could turn it around. 

You also think Anderson stinks.

27 minutes ago, yesterday333 said:

He is also a bit lucky to be on a rebuilding team. A contending team wouldn't have been able to let him work through this. Hopefully he continues to improve.

That's kind of the whole point. This is why when this message board thinks "Moncada/Garcia/Palka/Anderson needs a few days off to clear his mind" it's idiotic.

I hope he maintains this and the Fangraphs stuff is really encouraging but I can't stop myself from thinking that a lot of pitchers would have a pretty good month getting two starts against the Tigers, a start against the current Twins lineup and the Rays (noting that the Yankees shelled him).

This is why when you are in a rebuild, you exercise extreme patience with talented pitchers. I have no clue if Giolito will continue to improve and become a solid starter, but he has made strides as the season has progressed. Just keep sending him out there every fifth day.

9 minutes ago, maggsmaggs said:

This is why when you are in a rebuild, you exercise extreme patience with talented pitchers. I have no clue if Giolito will continue to improve and become a solid starter, but he has made strides as the season has progressed. Just keep sending him out there every fifth day.

There was one point in the season where I started to think it might be counterproductive when he was having problems getting even 4-5 innings in, but that didn't last long thankfully.  I do think he is going to be a better pitcher in the long run for having those depths to go back to in his head when he struggles.  Now he knows he can recover from anything.

Giolito’s one of my favorites, personality-wise, so I hope this improvement is real.  My concern is he may not be athletic enough to remember/repeat his delivery next year.  

I wonder if his his below average spin rate means the 2 seamer is better than 4 seamer long term?

2 hours ago, soxfan49 said:

You also think Anderson stinks.

I don't think he stinks per se, I think his on base skills are dreadful. He's useful in other ways, his power/speed combo is awesome, he plays good defense. I just think his OBP is so bad that he should be a 130 game super sub rather than an everyday player. For the time being, he's fine as a 8-9 hitter on a contending team. He's Alexei Ramirez with a worse OBP. Ramirez's OBP was on the "Mendoza line of OBP" that I created of .300. If .200 is the Mendoza line for BA, we need to find some punch and judy hitter with a .300 career OBP and make it his line. If they could teach him to play 3B and OF then he'd fill the super sub role perfectly. 

Edited August 29, 20187 yr by Jack Parkman

57 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

Giolito’s one of my favorites, personality-wise, so I hope this improvement is real.  My concern is he may not be athletic enough to remember/repeat his delivery next year.  

I wonder if his his below average spin rate means the 2 seamer is better than 4 seamer long term?

He has learned how to get wicked movement on the four seamer as well. Look at that swinging strikeout he got a start or two ago where he threw a 4 seamer at 94 mph to a LHB that ended up the RH Batter's box and they swung one of those half hearted swings that you love to see.