OneDog847 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 11 minutes ago, Unknown said: Benintendi This is a dumb rabbit hole to go down, but we know that the Sox were deep in talks with the Nats for Sale and ended up shipping out Eaton instead. Imagine if Juan Soto was included instead of Giolito. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 6 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: This whole saga deserves its own rock opera. Meatloaf would write the score for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Just now, OneDog847 said: This is a dumb rabbit hole to go down, but we know that the Sox were deep in talks with the Nats for Sale and ended up shipping out Eaton instead. Imagine if Juan Soto was included instead of Giolito. Yes if we are going to retroactively apply trades the best would have been Sale to Nats for Lopez, Robles and Soto or Sale to Braves for Acuna, Riley, pitching prospects etc. But I still think in 5 years Moncada/Kopech will rival those hauls. Maybe not Acuna. I think Soto has an unbelievable debut but still find it hard to believe how good it was. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Vision Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Balta1701 said: Honestly, I want the negativity to infect this organization, to the core. I want it to be a virus this entire season. I want the players to hear it, I want the coaches to hear it. I want visiting players to hear it. Assuming they don't sign Harper, I want Rick Renteria commenting in June about how he's never heard fans react to their players like this in all his years in baseball. I want the players to be commenting in July about how bad they feel coming in to work every day. The only way that they will be forced to fix the problem is if it becomes so toxic that everyone realizes what they did. Otherwise they will just keep cruising along. Rick Hahn will keep pocketing his 7 figures, Reinsdorf will see $50 million in profits this year, and they'll just roll with it. I'm pissed about the Machado debacle, but I hope some of these prospects become stars at the MLB level, and that they sign extensions with the team that buys out some of their free agent years. That will never happen if negativity infects the organization. Management and ownership needs to hear the boos all season, but I hope everyone cheers hard for the players and the atmosphere in the clubhouse is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, BlackSox13 said: Meatloaf would write the score for it! I would do anything for Manny (but I won't do that) 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, bmags said: Yes if we are going to retroactively apply trades the best would have been Sale to Nats for Lopez, Robles and Soto or Sale to Braves for Acuna, Riley, pitching prospects etc. But I still think in 5 years Moncada/Kopech will rival those hauls. Maybe not Acuna. I think Soto has an unbelievable debut but still find it hard to believe how good it was. I really hope you are right in regards to Moncada/Kopech. However, the present value of those two is probably less than one Fernando Tatis Jr. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Just now, OneDog847 said: I really hope you are right in regards to Moncada/Kopech. However, the present value of those two is probably less than one Fernando Tatis Jr. Undoubtedly, but I fully believe in that talent. It took a big setback, but I think we got back 3 major leaguers and that’s pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy U Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 8 minutes ago, OneDog847 said: I really hope you are right in regards to Moncada/Kopech. However, the present value of those two is probably less than one Fernando Tatis Jr. You're right, but it is apples and oranges. They should have all three players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 56 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: It's funny you say that, but I am the one person who has been right about this process at every single step of the way. All I heard two years ago were how to loyal Sox fans were, how all they wanted was a direction, and that they wouldn't abandon the team any more than they already had. Even before they came in 2nd on Machado (like I spent months before this off season saying they would) and the outrage machine kicked into high gear in the last few days, the team was down HUGE in the last two years after doing exactly what they supposedly wanted done. This is the same franchise it has always been. A lot of people spent a lot of time convincing themselves that it was now different, despite all of the franchise history to look at. People are mad because they fell for it. I spent years telling you all this wasn't going to be the Cubs rebuild, but no one wanted to hear it. Get out of your feels for a while and pay attention. Yep. I was also in the " don't get your hopes up" camp. I think you and I both expected a boring off season and unfortunately it turned out to be true. A 100 loss team is just not an attractive place for a big free agent to sign and having an owner that will only go so far financially doesn't help either. It was easy to see how people were picking and choosing what and who they believed in accordance to what they wanted to hear. It's why I made a few comments along the way about how the Machado thread would be a great psychological case study. I for one am happy as hell White Sox baseball is back and look forward to this season. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 41 minutes ago, tray said: Cubs got lucky when Houston picked Mark Appel at no. 1 and Kris Bryant fell to them at no. 2. They got lucky when they got Rizzo. Luck plays a huge role in sports. Cubs were purchased by mega billionaire Joe Ricketts and they threw hundreds of millions at free agents. Money plays a huge role in sports. I'm not going to let a few downers who for years keep throwing the Cubs in our faces impact how I feel about my team. I'm not sure if anyone around here is trying to throw the Cubs rebuild into anyone else's face. It is natural to compare the two since they both are going down in the same city. Most non-diehard Sox fans are gonna just say hey, the Cubs lost on purpose for a few years and everything turned out great, it should be easy for the Sox to do the same. Sure the Cubs got lucky in some areas. However, their ability to scout, evaluate, and develop young talent is not based on luck alone and they are very very good at it. You cannot successfully rebuild if you are bad at evaluating young talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 49 minutes ago, OneDog847 said: Not signing Harper/Machado coupled with all the prospect injuries have made competing in 2020 a real long shot. The only way I see them competing in 2020 is if they go crazy next offseason and spend 400 million plus on guys like Arenado, Sale/Cole, and Grandal. 2020 should hopefully be the last of the tank/developmental years. I didn't say compete, I said a miracle for .500. And yes 2020 should still be a 90 win season even with injuries. Our division should pad win totals. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Unknown said: Still can't believe Moncada was the prize for Sale. Hahn should be fired just for that. I think Moncada is going to take a massive leap this year 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said: It's funny you say that, but I am the one person who has been right about this process at every single step of the way. All I heard two years ago were how to loyal Sox fans were, how all they wanted was a direction, and that they wouldn't abandon the team any more than they already had. Even before they came in 2nd on Machado (like I spent months before this off season saying they would) and the outrage machine kicked into high gear in the last few days, the team was down HUGE in the last two years after doing exactly what they supposedly wanted done. This is the same franchise it has always been. A lot of people spent a lot of time convincing themselves that it was now different, despite all of the franchise history to look at. People are mad because they fell for it. I spent years telling you all this wasn't going to be the Cubs rebuild, but no one wanted to hear it. Get out of your feels for a while and pay attention. So are you blaming the fans for being upset, or the incompetent front office for not delivering on their promise of a big time agree agent, or both? Because this is the main reason fans are upset. Expectations of the Sox spending money when the time was right, and not on stopgap retreads like all the previous years of losing. If your prediction is correct and that this is the same franchise that it has always been, the franchise is the problem, not the fans. They are the ones managing the team into the ground and alienating the fans. Edited February 23, 2019 by Harper2Sox 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 55 minutes ago, Unknown said: Benintendi Have you considered the red sox weren't gonna give him up? This ain't playstation were you override the trade. And imagine if that would have happened and bennintendi would have struggled what would your reaction be.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 I do think we're going to have a lot of certainty from Moncada by the end of the year. One way or another, I don't see a duplication of last year. He's either figured stuff out and will take a moderate-to-large leap forward or he'll never get out of his head and it will start to spiral out of control. Luckily our brilliant coaching staff has decided the best thing for him is to play a new position on the basis that it will require him to "focus more" which will surely help his bat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Jake said: I do think we're going to have a lot of certainty from Moncada by the end of the year. One way or another, I don't see a duplication of last year. He's either figured stuff out and will take a moderate-to-large leap forward or he'll never get out of his head and it will start to spiral out of control. Luckily our brilliant coaching staff has decided the best thing for him is to play a new position on the basis that it will require him to "focus more" which will surely help his bat. I tend to agree, and if Moncada has a worse year than last year, I think it is time to fire Hahn. He shouldn't be allowed to recover from that type of miss, and should ultimately be held accountable. Unfortunately, both this FO and the Bulls FO have infinite lives, and we all know what the lowest common denominator is. I believe and have always believed that this rebuild hinges on Moncada becoming a 6+WAR player and Jimenez becoming JD Martinez. If both don't happen, nothing else matters anyway. Edited February 23, 2019 by Jack Parkman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxwinner Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dick Allen said: I think he is the one guy we have already seen at the big league level that there is a real hope he could take off.They are having him hold the bat differently, whatever that will do. But I think a slight change in approach can mean a big jump to his numbers. The guy was 7-130 in ABs where he got down in a count 0-2 with nearly 100 strikeouts. Swinging at good pitches to hit may change that. Being selective is nice, but not if you are letting good pitches go and it gets you in a hole, He has enough ability where if he starts swinging at good pitches to hit, he will still see a ton of pitches anyway because of the damage he will do. i know he also got rung up a lot when he shouldn’t have, but that is something he needs to recognize as well. He isn’t going to get those calls yet. Maybe some day, but not now. He needs to foul them of or put them in play or the seats. With Todd Steverson as our hitting coach, I have little hope they will do the right things for Moncada Edited February 23, 2019 by whitesoxwinner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxwinner Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 30 minutes ago, iamshack said: I think Moncada is going to take a massive leap this year Hopefully if they get their advanced stats hitting coach to work with him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 2 hours ago, SonofaRoache said: Not a chance this happens. Eloy won't bring fans to games by himself, and the team needs to win before this debacle washes over. Attendance will not be terrible, but they will bring in probably 19k a game. Fans may come back next year if Eloy enters the MVP conversation and if other young guys are producing. Small sample size, but I will definitely go to games when Eloy comes up just to see him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Just now, whitesoxwinner said: With Todd Steverson as our hitting coach, I have little hope they will do the right things Yup. Like I said, I have zero confidence in their coaching right now. I'm convinced they could have taken an 18 year old Mike Trout and turned him into a non-prospect, and a 21 year old Mike Trout and turned him into the biggest bust in MLB history. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 13 hours ago, fathom said: Look at the responses to this tweet.....I'm not sure I've ever seen a fan base so mad. Thank god we have so many fans that those on the waiting list for season tickets will finally be able to purchase them. I get being mad at the FO, but taking it out on guys like Yolmer and TA is ridiculous and unwarranted. These guys have done nothing but play hard since they came to the Sox. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, turnin' two said: I get being mad at the FO, but taking it out on guys like Yolmer and TA is ridiculous and unwarranted. These guys have done nothing but play hard since they came to the Sox. Exactly. It's childish. Some "fans" are just plain idiots. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 59 minutes ago, BlackSox13 said: Yep. I was also in the " don't get your hopes up" camp. I think you and I both expected a boring off season and unfortunately it turned out to be true. A 100 loss team is just not an attractive place for a big free agent to sign and having an owner that will only go so far financially doesn't help either. It was easy to see how people were picking and choosing what and who they believed in accordance to what they wanted to hear. It's why I made a few comments along the way about how the Machado thread would be a great psychological case study. I for one am happy as hell White Sox baseball is back and look forward to this season. The Padres were 66-96, 25 games back of LA...13 years and counting since last playoff appearance. And a lot more teams between them and 1st place in their division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 18 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: The Padres were 66-96, 25 games back of LA...13 years and counting since last playoff appearance. And a lot more teams between them and 1st place in their division. But those four games are huge! 😛 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Perfect Vision said: I'm pissed about the Machado debacle, but I hope some of these prospects become stars at the MLB level, and that they sign extensions with the team that buys out some of their free agent years. That will never happen if negativity infects the organization. Management and ownership needs to hear the boos all season, but I hope everyone cheers hard for the players and the atmosphere in the clubhouse is good. They don't introduce the general manager before every game. They introduce the players. If you're cheering for the players, if you buy tickets and pay the chairman for the parking lots, you are telling the White Sox that everything is ok and you're ok with how this went. If you already bought tickets...boo. Make them feel it. Management won't hear it otherwise. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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