A Realistic Offseason

[BackDoorBreach]

1 hour ago, Tony said:

I can’t see Abreu signing for more than 2 years guaranteed, it shouldn’t be THAT big of an issue. 

He'd have to get a 2 year or 3 year with club option that third for it to work.  He SHOULDN'T get any more than 2 guarenteed but our owner is awful.

Vaughn should be ready to go late 2020/early 2021.  You don't pass on a generational hitter in JDM because of a 35 year old Jose Abreu.  They need to sign that guy.  He would be a huge addition.

[BackDoorBreach]

Adding JDM and Nick Castellanos gives us or close to 5 players with 30 HR seasons.(Eloy-pencil, Abreu-pencil, Yo-pencil if healthy, JDM, Castellanos).

  I don't have the stats in front of me but I am SURE Castellanos was hurt offensively and defensively playing in that huge park in Detroit. LuBob should also help him with defense in our bandbox, who by the way could be a candidate to punch 30 out.  I watched a decent amount of Cubs games after Nick got traded and he looks more comfortable than Eloy out there.  I didn't see him do anything egregious as some try to claim.  

JDM

Nicky C

2 pen arms

1 front end SP and 1 back end guy that can eat innings .  

This would put us under 150 million which is completely reasonable for a team ready to compete, even for Jerry.  

If they could work out a trade for a solid to good, young, LH, RF fine.  I just don't think we have the disposable ammo for that. Vaughn, Madrigal, Cease, Lopez aren't going to be traded so that just needs to stop.

What I don't wan't to see is this FO pussy foot around and sign stop gaps like Corey Dickerson and Kole Calhoun or trade for a G. Polanco or Mazarra to be starting in RF just because of handedness Or mUh M0oKie 2021.  Wasting years of our young, cheap, core, is a terrible idea.  

 

 

[ron883]

6 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Adding JDM and Nick Castellanos gives us or close to 5 players with 30 HR seasons.(Eloy-pencil, Abreu-pencil, Yo-pencil if healthy, JDM, Castellanos).

  I don't have the stats in front of me but I am SURE Castellanos was hurt offensively and defensively playing in that huge park in Detroit. LuBob should also help him with defense in our bandbox, who by the way could be a candidate to punch 30 out.  I watched a decent amount of Cubs games after Nick got traded and he looks more comfortable than Eloy out there.  I didn't see him do anything egregious as some try to claim.  

JDM

Nicky C

2 pen arms

1 front end SP and 1 back end guy that can eat innings .  

This would put us under 150 million which is completely reasonable for a team ready to compete, even for Jerry.  

If they could work out a trade for a solid to good, young, LH, RF fine.  I just don't think we have the disposable ammo for that. Vaughn, Madrigal, Cease, Lopez aren't going to be traded so that just needs to stop.

What I don't wan't to see is this FO pussy foot around and sign stop gaps like Corey Dickerson and Kole Calhoun or trade for a G. Polanco or Mazarra to be starting in RF just because of handedness Or mUh M0oKie 2021.  Wasting years of our young, cheap, core, is a terrible idea.  

 

 

That offense would be absoluty dirty. I just don't think Castellanos is worth the money he will get, especially considering we would have Eloy in the other corner. That defense would suck. 

 

[SoxAce]

54 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

I don't have the stats in front of me but I am SURE Castellanos was hurt offensively and defensively playing in that huge park in Detroit.

His defensive numbers sucked at Wrigley too. Dude is just a terrible defensive player. 

[greg775]

1 hour ago, ron883 said:

Greg, did you see what Avi did tonight in the wildcard game? BOMB. Opposite field. One of the hardest hit in recent playoff history. 

 

 

I get ripped on here so much for my "eye tests" loving certain players. I love this guy and here I feel like praising him is almost getting me banned or called a troll. Folks ... Avi is a pretty nice guy for the Rays' batting sixth in the order. He ain't a bad No. 6 hitter who makes PENNIES. Tell me more about how much of a baseball clown fan I am. Congrats Avi baby; hope u guys did the champaigne thing in the locker room tonight! 

p.s. looks like he hit it in the shadows, too. Guys, it's not all about stats. Leadership/veterans. You need a mix on teams, folks. Trust me.

Edited October 3, 2019 by greg775

[BackDoorBreach]

1 hour ago, SoxAce said:

His defensive numbers sucked at Wrigley too. Dude is just a terrible defensive player. 

If they sucked they sucked, he's never going to be Griffey in the field and I understand that.  I'm just saying he didn't look like a huge liability with the Cubs, and had a much smaller area to cover when he got traded.

Dude is worth 2.7 bWAR in 2019 and more than half of that was in huge Comerica.  If he isn't going to realistically command a 5 year/100 contract get him signed.  He is like a 6 win increase based on WAR which puts us around .500 with him alone.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

12 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

When’s the last time the Sox had a hitter of JDM’s caliber? The Big Hurt? This dude is a monster at the plate and changes the entire look of the lineup. Sorry, but Grandal just doesn’t have the same effect (I know but the defense, and I don’t care because I think Grandal’s D is overrated).

Moncada is right there with him now and Eloy will be just like him next year. I don't know if Grandal would have the same effect but I am not in favor of clogging up the roster with DH only types and Grandal does check the boxes in some key areas of need, LH, OBP power and a position player. Even if his D is overrated he's still very valuable playing that position.

Don't get me wrong I like Martinez . I wanted him when the Red Sox signed him because not many teams were after him . Many thought then it was too early in the rebuild but I'm never against getting quality players at any time since they could always be given an early opt out thus having the ability to get assets for him.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

16 hours ago, greg775 said:

The ball is live now. He hit 20 homers for Tampa this year in 125 games. It's easy to assume in the Cell with the live ball he could up that to 25 or more. The guy had a good year starting for a playoff team. I never said I was smartdf than everybody else. I happen to like Avi's game and he comes cheap. What's not to like? You've got to concede plug him into our lineup as one of our "weak links" and he fits in there nicely. if he's one of our worst hitters ... wow. And he's attainable. Again, he's on a playoff team for gosh sakes. It's not like he's some stiff. Conclusion: He's very affordable; he knows playoff baseball; he's a veteran presence. And we've still got Engle and Palka if for some reason he turns to crap.

I am against trading any of the tank/rebuild acquisitions BTW. If you are going to tank and acquire players, see this through. If that means Rutherford over Avi, fine.

Tony might be thinking one of my posts was your post because I wanted the Sox to resign Avi after he was non tendered and one of the smartest organizations in baseball saw value in him signed him and got that value like Tampa Bay usually does and the Sox do not.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

25 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Moncada is right there with him now and Eloy will be just like him next year. I don't know if Grandal would have the same effect but I am not in favor of clogging up the roster with DH only types and Grandal does check the boxes in some key areas of need, LH, OBP power and a position player. Even if his D is overrated he's still very valuable playing that position.

Don't get me wrong I like Martinez . I wanted him when the Red Sox signed him because not many teams were after him . Many thought then it was too early in the rebuild but I'm never against getting quality players at any time since they could always be given an early opt out thus having the ability to get assets for him.

Moncada and Eloy might get there eventually but they don’t have the track record of JDM. Since 2014, JDM is the third best hitter in baseball by wRC+. Sox haven’t had a guy like that since the Big Hurt era. He’s tremendous even if he slips a bit over the next few years. He changed the entire look of the 2018 Red Sox lineup that’s for sure.

[NWINFan]

Greg - Avi can be a good player at times and can give a team some power. But he is injury prone. Also, when he was the Sox, I never saw him take a good path to the ball.  Time to move on. I think the Sox have already.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Just now, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Moncada and Eloy might get there eventually but they don’t have the track record of JDM. Since 2014, JDM is the third best hitter in baseball by wRC+. Sox haven’t had a guy like that since the Big Hurt era. He’s tremendous even if he slips a bit over the next few years. He changed the entire look of the 2018 Red Sox lineup that’s for sure.

I was just pointing out that Moncada and JDM had basically the same OPS+ this year thus making him a current hitter of JDM's quality since that's the question you asked.

I've seen posts wanting JDM and Castellanos to be added. At some point, like now, we have to value positional versatility and defense . Going forward if the goal is a World Series then JDM gets put in the OF part time and Castellanos gets benched or vice versa. I don't like that one bit. I know that wasn't your idea but with every single player we get we have to keep all those things in mind that Grandal supplies that JDM doesn't.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

15 hours ago, daggins said:

Here's a preliminary plan

Odorizzi @ 3/54
Pomeranz @ 2/14
Nova @ 1/9
Smyly MiLB deal

Grandal @ 4/80
Abreu @ 2/24

Reynaldo Lopez for Brandon Nimmo 
Stiever and one of Rutherford/Adolfo/Basabe/Gonzalez for Mychal Givens

DFA Yolmer, Tender everyone else

C Grandal
1B Abreu
2B Madrigal
SS Anderson
3B Moncada
LF Jimenez
CF Robert
RF Nimmo
DH Some mix of Grandal/Collins/Abreu

Bench - McCann, Collins, Leury, Engel, Mendick

SP - Giolito, Cease, Odorizzi, Kopech, Nova (Rodon/Smyly/Dunning/Lambert/depth signings)
RP - Bummer, Colome, Herrera, Pomeranz, Givens, two of Hamilton/Burr/Marshall/Cordero/others)

Payroll ~120M 

My golly I would hate that offseason

[ChiSox59]

15 hours ago, daggins said:

Here's a preliminary plan

Odorizzi @ 3/54
Pomeranz @ 2/14
Nova @ 1/9
Smyly MiLB deal

Grandal @ 4/80
Abreu @ 2/24

Reynaldo Lopez for Brandon Nimmo 
Stiever and one of Rutherford/Adolfo/Basabe/Gonzalez for Mychal Givens

DFA Yolmer, Tender everyone else

C Grandal
1B Abreu
2B Madrigal
SS Anderson
3B Moncada
LF Jimenez
CF Robert
RF Nimmo
DH Some mix of Grandal/Collins/Abreu

Bench - McCann, Collins, Leury, Engel, Mendick

SP - Giolito, Cease, Odorizzi, Kopech, Nova (Rodon/Smyly/Dunning/Lambert/depth signings)
RP - Bummer, Colome, Herrera, Pomeranz, Givens, two of Hamilton/Burr/Marshall/Cordero/others)

Payroll ~120M 

Gahhh.  There are parts of this that are ok, but I would be pretty disappointed if that was our offseason in totality, 

Signing Grandal would be a home run.

Getting Nimmo would be fantastic.  Would prefer that it was with the Stiever + Rutherford package as opposed to Reynaldo.

The rest is pretty much trash.  Paying Odorizzi $18M per would a disaster.  We don't need a lefty reliever and giving Pomeranz that deal would be silly.  Fine with Smyly on a milb, but we damn better have filled the other opening with something better than Odorizzi.  Total meh on bringing Nova back unless its for like $3M.  

Would love Abreu on 2/$24.  I fear his great season made that somewhat unrealistic. Probably gets 2/$30M minimum.

 

 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

32 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I was just pointing out that Moncada and JDM had basically the same OPS+ this year thus making him a current hitter of JDM's quality since that's the question you asked.

I've seen posts wanting JDM and Castellanos to be added. At some point, like now, we have to value positional versatility and defense . Going forward if the goal is a World Series then JDM gets put in the OF part time and Castellanos gets benched or vice versa. I don't like that one bit. I know that wasn't your idea but with every single player we get we have to keep all those things in mind that Grandal supplies that JDM doesn't.

Regarding those two guys it’s an either/or, not both. You can’t bring both those guys in with Abreu coming back as well. Personally, I’d be fine with Puig in RF if they can ink JDM or Castellanos.

[ChiSox59]

13 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Regarding those two guys it’s an either/or, not both. You can’t bring both those guys in with Abreu coming back as well. Personally, I’d be fine with Puig in RF if they can ink JDM or Castellanos.

ALL THE RIGHTIES!

[Jack Parkman]

39 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Regarding those two guys it’s an either/or, not both. You can’t bring both those guys in with Abreu coming back as well. Personally, I’d be fine with Puig in RF if they can ink JDM or Castellanos.

If JDM can keep up the OBP, I'd probably rather have him. He put up a .383 OBP last year. I didn't realize the gulf between Martinez and Castellanos in OBP. 

Edited October 3, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

32 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

If JDM can keep up the OBP, I'd probably rather have him. He put up a .383 OBP last year. I didn't realize the gulf between Martinez and Castellanos in OBP. 

I would definitely prefer JDM but Castellanos isn’t a terrible backup plan either.

[daggins]

3 hours ago, cjgalloway said:

My golly I would hate that offseason

Hey it said realistic, not ideal.

[greg775]

5 hours ago, Tony said:

So.......why does he make pennies then, greg? Why isn't another team forking over big money for a guy this valuable?!?!?!

He just hit a home run bomb to help Tampa Bay win the wild card game with a payroll of what, the lowest in baseball? Why not praise the guy instead of partake in a battle with greg? If some of you folks can't see the value in having a veteran player on the roster I can't win that argument. Intangibles matter in sports and the Sox would do well to have both Avi and Abreu to anchor the young guns. It's not all about advanced stats. Even though the Rays also love them, they just beat Billyball again. GO RAYS. GO AVI. Why not sign Avi? At least I give actual reasons on how cheap he'd be. Spend Jerry's money on pitching baby, pitching!

In answer to your question ... the going rate for Avi for some reason, his defense I guess, is only 5 or 6 million a year, not 12 million. I guess baseball considers him average at best. I happen to like him!

[greg775]

5 hours ago, NWINFan said:

Greg - Avi can be a good player at times and can give a team some power. But he is injury prone. Also, when he was the Sox, I never saw him take a good path to the ball.  Time to move on. I think the Sox have already.

Good points,. I just get mad because nobody acknowledges the fact you don't need a star at every position and they never gave him credit for that monster year he had for the Sox what, two seasons ago?

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

1 hour ago, daggins said:

Hey it said realistic, not ideal.

true, very true.. I could also see this as realistic given out front office history

[Superstar Lamar]

realism sucks

[greg775]

I just ignored you, Tony, so if you want to read my posts you can. Or you can ignore me back. You and southsider don't get me so this is best before I get banned, Adios, have a nice winter in the bitter wind of Chitown and GO SOX!

[Superstar Lamar]

Zack Wheeler 5 year deal

Rich Hill 1 year deal

Hunter Pence  1 year deal

 

[tray]

Perhaps signing Moose makes sense, since he could play third and second in a pinch and could be a LH DH.  With Leury as infield back-up maybe Moose would take Yolmer's spot on the roster.  

  I sense the Cubs really want Castellanos back and given that, I would love to see Jerry outbid  Joe Rickett, even if it is a slight over pay...but I would not go longer than a 3 year deal.