I think we have to ask ourselves if the Sox are a universally undesirable location for players. Somewhere they go when they have few or no options. 

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by Jack Parkman

Good job Sox FO. You tried your best, now go offer the same amount or more to a pitcher that is much more better. 

1 minute ago, Eminor3rd said:

He was the 15th best pitcher in the MLB last year by fWAR. What is a TOR pitcher to you?

Someone who does that for more than a year or two. Aka, someone like Scherzer and Verlander and Kershaw. Sale. Do it consistently for a half decade and you are a TOR starter. 

You put Wheeler against Scherzer or Verlander in Game 1 of a WS and the line is -195 in favor of Scherzer's team against Wheeler. (By the way, he'd be pitching game #2 cause Gio would be out there... so the argument that he's a TOR can't even be backed up on his own team)

Just now, kwill said:

I totally understand this but we already got one good player in a position of need. One middle of the rotation pitcher does not make an off-season. I would be upset if Grandel is the only signing but I suspect that will not be the case. 

I think its encouraging that they had the best offer. I personally think they could use the 23 million per year over the next 5 in a better way. 

Yes, but you need to also start valuing time and not just budget room.

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

I think we have to ask ourselves if the Sox are a universally undesirable location for players. 

Like they didn’t immediately convert on someone two weeks ago. 

Just now, BrianAnderson said:

Someone who does that for more than a year or two. Aka, someone like Scherzer and Verlander and Kershaw. Sale. Do it consistently for a half decade and you are a TOR starter. 

You put Wheeler against Scherzer or Verlander in Game 1 of a WS and the line is -195 in favor of Scherzer's team against Wheeler. (By the way, he'd be pitching game #2 cause Gio would be out there... so the argument that he's a TOR can't even be backed up on his own team)

Fuck, man, that sounds terrible, the sox would have two top of rotation starters? That doesn't make sense. You should just go for the bare minimum.

Just now, mqr said:

Like they didn’t immediately convert on someone two weeks ago. 

I don't think anyone was coming that close to $73M for Grandal, IMO.

I bet we did 6 years - 125 million or something like that.. If I were Zach I'd take the 5-118 too

Just now, mqr said:

Like they didn’t immediately convert on someone two weeks ago. 

My guess is that Grandal's  best offers outside the Sox were in the $3/52 range. 

I dont think I would have been ecstatic over a Wheeler signing. I have been more demoralized with the Sox FO approach financially then anything else. Knowing that they were the highest bidder makes me feel a little bit better about things. 

Then I remember there are two of the better pitchers in the game available right now and the Sox have already painted the narrative that they do not have deep enough pockets for them. FML

 

1 minute ago, timbo8 said:

was it there football fan that booed santa or baseball i  know that Aaron Rowand earned there respect
 

 

Booed Santa?!?  That is not very family friendly.  Was Mrs. Wheeler aware of this during negotiations?

Just now, soxfan2014 said:

I don't think anyone was coming that close to $73M for Grandal, IMO.

I do. The reds just spent almost that much on Mike Moustakas. I’m sure they’d rather have given that to grandal

4 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

He was the 15th best pitcher in the MLB last year by fWAR. What is a TOR pitcher to you?

He was 9th over the last 2 years combined. Even worse. I just don't fWAR is the be all/end all, especially when we consider projection. 

1 minute ago, mqr said:

Like they didn’t immediately convert on someone two weeks ago. 

They need to make this some sort of banner to fly at the arrow:

"Capable of signing good over-30 aged catchers 30 years apart"

Just now, bmags said:

They need to make this some sort of banner to fly at the arrow:

"Capable of signing good over-30 aged catchers 30 years apart"

I’m just trying to say painting them universally indersireable is dumb

Maybe the Cuban connection was very real with Grandal and signing Abreu was a part of it. 

Just now, mqr said:

I’m just trying to say painting them universally indersireable is dumb

I honestly don't care anymore. They just have to actually execute shit for me to defend them in any way. I don't care they offered more. I don't care if they are desireable or undesireable. I care that they targeted wheeler and failed. I don't believe in spreading the wealth in mlb. You get depth internally, you should use the surplus before re-signings on players you really love, not fallbacks.

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

Time to turn this into MadBumTalk

I'm on the fence with Bumgarner. There are a lot of innings on that arm.....He gives up a lot of gopher balls....That being said, I was in favor of him most of the season. Only after I looked further did I sour on him a bit. 

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by Jack Parkman

Honestly feel bad for Rick kind of.

Guy sees these rumors circulating about their offer of 5/110 not being good enough, panics and probably begged Jerry for 10 million more. "IT'LL GET IT DONE AND WE'LL REDEEM OURSELVES JERRY! FANS WILL REJOICE."

Jerry, for the first time in Rick's life says "you know what Rick, sure, let's do it. They want 120? Give them 120."

Rick leaves the room giddy calls the agent and tells him. They realize it's the high bid. News breaks Phillies sign him for less.

Rick cries; Jerry laughs; Kenny shits himself in anger.

6 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

LOL. LOL. LOL. 

Probably the same sox fan that freaked out about not signing manny machado. When Wheeler is hurt again and the deal is an overpay we can all look back and laugh. LOL

Great, and when our #2 starter next year is Dallas fucking Keuchel we can all cry as we miss the playoffs.

I think Wheeler is a better pitcher than Bumgarner, but I also think Bumgarner is a better fit for the Sox. Roster construction matters. 

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Honestly feel bad for Rick kind of.

Guy sees these rumors circulating about their offer of 5/110 not being good enough, panics and probably begged Jerry for 10 million more. "IT'LL GET IT DONE AND WE'LL REDEEM OURSELVES JERRY! FANS WILL REJOICE."

Jerry, for the first time in Rick's life says "you know what Rick, sure, let's do it. They want 120? Give them 120."

Rick leaves the room giddy calls the agent and tells him. They realize it's the high bid. News breaks Phillies sign him for less.

Rick cries; Jerry laughs; Kenny shits himself in anger.

LMAO

7 minutes ago, Sockin said:

 

Glad this is leaking.  Doesn’t change the fact that we’re in a tough fucking spot now, but at least they were aggressive as fuck and tried to get Wheeler signed.

Sometimes even if you throw money to travel it’s not the same as living in the area you want. Ball players travel and are away from home a lot spouses and kids want to feel comfortable when their husbands are away.You don’t know health issues or kid issues with the family and maybe she wanted to live close to her family as she might be very close to them. I know I gave up transfer opportunities with more money to stay as my wife wanted to live 20 minutes away from her family. You can also credit his agent for using the Sox and others to help drive up the philly contract to get what they wanted in an area they wanted to live. Think the Sox stepped up here and if the Phillies didn’t enter the fray they would have won based on the other teams in the running. It’s time to shift and over pay to some other slug. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by quickman

8 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

It's not like Sox fans have a good reputation. I mean, come on man. ?

I apologize.  I am afraid that I have an irrational dislike for anyone who turns down more $$ from my favorite baseball team to go play for a team that I have no interest in whatsoever.