4 minutes ago, Baron said:

What free agent? The quality is much worse now. 

Wow another cliff jumper!

Just now, maloney.adam said:

Wow another cliff jumper!

Just reality. Wheeler was the top of this group. 

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I doubt it would have been that much, but when everyone thought it would have taken $10 million more than what they were comfortable with, most, including you, thought that was a small price to pay. There was a figure where the fiance's family in NJ wouldn't have mattered. 

It's pretty binary. You either sign the player or you don't. 

BTW, I know you like to write Dick as much as possible, but grow up. It isn't fooling anyone. In fact, it's a lot of bluster, just like the Phillies.

What? 

 

Dominoes will start to fall now that the market is set.

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I doubt it would have been that much, but when everyone thought it would have taken $10 million more than what they were comfortable with, most, including you, thought that was a small price to pay. There was a figure where the fiance's family in NJ wouldn't have mattered. 

It's pretty binary. You either sign the player or you don't. 

BTW, I know you like to write Dick as much as possible, but grow up. It isn't fooling anyone. In fact, it's a lot of bluster, just like the Phillies.

Basing the entire conclusion on "I doubt it would have taken that much" doesn't work. You always say that the players will always sign for the most money. When they turn down the most money the discussion turns to what you "doubt."

It's just more FO bashing.

2 minutes ago, Baron said:

Just reality. Wheeler was the top of this group. 

Go after Ryu who had the best ERA last year and who had a better record than Wheeler. Quite frankly, also who has better overall career stats. Yes he’s just as injury prone but is a far better pitcher.

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by maloney.adam

1 minute ago, GreenSox said:

There's always a reason; always an excuse.   At some point you have to deliver.....unless you are Rick Hahn, in which case just being Rick Hahn is delivery enough.

Rick Hahn doing trades for veterans....can't wait.

They should function like a well run organization; not like a desperate teenage girl seeking attention in anyway possible.

If an agent calls and says we have 118 on the table, can you beat it.. they'd be absolutely insane and dumb to say "140!" 

Just now, maloney.adam said:

Go after Ryu who had the best ERA last year. Btw what was Wheeler’s ERA?

Do you really want to go down that path? Your new so I don't want to destroy you just yet. 

22 minutes ago, fathom said:

It’s his fiancée by the way.  No wonder he has to try and please her.

To his credit, she is a smoke show.

18 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

I disagree, but okay. 

MadBum isn't good anymore.  He'd give up 50 home runs pitching in Chicago in the summer.  

Only thought is at least the Twins didn’t sign him.

We’re basically competing with them, and Cleveland...not the Phillies.

And with how bad we are at evaluating talent, Wheeler probably ends up as a bullet that we dodged.  

Also, that this going on another two plus months and losing out on him ultimately would have been another miserable feeling.

1 minute ago, ptatc said:

Basing the entire conclusion on "I doubt it would have taken that much" doesn't work. You always say that the players will always sign for the most money. When they turn down the most money the discussion turns to what you "doubt."

It's just more FO bashing.

Yeah, it's honestly just being miserable and angry and hate filled regardless and for no reason. 

They call the Sox incompetent for not offering the most. Then they offer the most and they're incompetent for not wastefully offering more than the "most."

If the guy doesn't want to come play for you when you offer the most money, then F him and move on. 

18 minutes ago, Superstar Lamar said:

The Sox also think they had the highest offer for Machado.

Don't be fooled

No they didn't. They said Machado could have ended up making more money with their offer. That possibility was true, regardless of what people think of the quality of guaranteed deals vs guaranteed +  incentives deals. 

Just now, SoxAce said:

To his credit, she is a smoke show.

She absolutely is 

3 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Basing the entire conclusion on "I doubt it would have taken that much" doesn't work. You always say that the players will always sign for the most money. When they turn down the most money the discussion turns to what you "doubt."

It's just more FO bashing.

They certainly have earned the right to not be bashed.

6 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What’s this path your referring to?  I can’t blame the Sox for losing out on Wheeler when they were the high offer and well above initial expectations, but this most definitely makes competing in 2020 that much harder.

I really think it's a pretty safe bet Ryu has a comparable 2020 to Wheeler. Beyond that, obviously Wheeler would be the guy you want, but Ryu + someone else gets you close. 

1 minute ago, Stealth G.O.A.T. said:

No they didn't. They said Machado could have ended up making more money with their offer. That possibility was true, regardless of what people think of the quality of guaranteed deals vs guaranteed +  incentives deals. 

They literally said that they thought they had the best offer on the table.

4 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Basing the entire conclusion on "I doubt it would have taken that much" doesn't work. You always say that the players will always sign for the most money. When they turn down the most money the discussion turns to what you "doubt."

It's just more FO bashing.

All I know is that there was a figure. You are taking this out of context. Ray Ray made up the $20 million figure. I just wrote I doubt it would have been that much, and I think that is very reasonable.

1 minute ago, Rowand44 said:

They certainly have earned the right to not be bashed.

sarcasm?

2020-21 Free Agents
Starting pitchers: Trevor Bauer, Robbie Ray, James Paxton, Masahiro Tanaka, Jake Arrieta (club option), Marcus Stroman, Jose Quintana

2021-22 Free Agents
Starting pitchers: Noah Syndergaard, Clayton Kershaw, Corey Kluber, Max Scherzer, Justin Verlander, Zack Greinke, Chris Archer, Mike Foltynewicz

 

Not a whole lotta options to be in love with  there for a variety of reasons.  Yikes.

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by caulfield12

8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What’s this path your referring to?  I can’t blame the Sox for losing out on Wheeler when they were the high offer and well above initial expectations, but this most definitely makes competing in 2020 that much harder.

I mean, it’s not impossible for Ryu or MadBum to have an equal or better year than Wheeler. 

8 minutes ago, ptatc said:

It's because we all know that JR will always have a budget. It may be fine in the first couple years. But after that they will not be able to afford to pay their young players because of the budgetary restriction later.

And that's fine and dandy(and obviously true) but at some fuckin point you have to overpay to get one of these guys.  We're going to keep pushing this shit back because we refuse to pay an extra 15 mill on a player and all the sudden Yoan and Kopech and Gio are hitting free agency and we didn't open their window to win soon enough.

17 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

Not bad, though. More like “inefficient.” But is that really a problem with this roster?

the whole point to this rebuilding strategy is that you collect so much talent that’s underpaid (In other words, extremely efficient) you have space to actually get what you need via free agency, in which only the highest bid wins, making every win, by definition, inefficient.

if they were only ever going to sign players that the rest of the market misses on, there was never any point to rebuilding in the first place. You can be an also-ran fringe wild card contender and still be willing to get free agents on “good value” no matter what your payroll is. 

Bingo.  The whole rebuild set this up as our time to splurge.  Saying “we couldn’t do that, that would be a splurge” misses the point.
 

Too many freaking Tiny Tims on this Board.  “I don’t even want the Turkey Fathahh...The scrawny duck you bought us is splendid!  God bless us every one!”  This is only Zack Wheeler we’re talking about ffs, and people seem happy not only with settling for him, but settling for losing out on him but trying really hard in doing so.  

2 minutes ago, mqr said:

I really think it's a pretty safe bet Ryu has a comparable 2020 to Wheeler. Beyond that, obviously Wheeler would be the guy you want, but Ryu + someone else gets you close. 

I’m just skeptical Ryu will leave L.A. / the West Coast until he does.  He’s definitely the one fall back option that could help in the short-run.