8 minutes ago, Baron said:

Do you really want to go down that path? Your new so I don't want to destroy you just yet. 

Ryu also had a higher fWAR. 

5 minutes ago, Baron said:

Do you really want to go down that path? Your new so I don't want to destroy you just yet. 

Dude, see my edited post. I’m only just putting in my two cents or opinion on it. I’m sticking with my comment that Ryu is an overall better pitcher. No hard feelings. 

6 minutes ago, Rowand44 said:

They literally said that they thought they had the best offer on the table.

What the Sox FO deemed to be the "Best Offer" is different than stating they had the "highest offer." They didn't have the highest guaranteed offer. KW openly said they could not get to $300M guaranteed. By all accounts, they were around $250M guaranteed, but did get over $300M with incentives. 

What the previous poster said is they claimed to have the highest offer to Machado. They never made that claim. 

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by Stealth G.O.A.T.

Call the DBacks and ask about Ray I guess..

1 hour ago, TaylorStSox said:

I think Wheeler is a better pitcher than Bumgarner, but I also think Bumgarner is a better fit for the Sox. Roster construction matters. 

Bumgarner will get hammered in our park, already discussed.

32 minutes ago, fathom said:

It’s his fiancée by the way.  No wonder he has to try and please her.

Let her walk and see if she could find another dude making $24M a year.

7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

They should function like a well run organization; not like a desperate teenage girl seeking attention in anyway possible.

If an agent calls and says we have 118 on the table, can you beat it.. they'd be absolutely insane and dumb to say "140!" 

People are mad because they don't function like a well run org. 

If this FO doesn't deserve ire for the public mistakes they are making, when can we criticize? I want to know the rules.

The one thing they are good at is controlling media messages about how they are relevant and there is always a reason - out of their control- why they can't sign the players they are targeting. And a good portion of the fan base eats it up and carries their water. When Hahn has a track record to standby I'll cut him some slack.

1 minute ago, pcq said:

Bumgarner will get hammered in our park, already discussed.

As others have pointed out, he has very similar fly ball numbers to Gio. I think there's value in having a left handed vet on this staff, but if the rumors about his price tag are true, I'm a no. 

12 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

They should function like a well run organization; not like a desperate teenage girl seeking attention in anyway possible.

When will they start doing that?

6 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

All I know is that there was a figure. You are taking this out of context. Ray Ray made up the $20 million figure. I just wrote I doubt it would have been that much, and I think that is very reasonable.

I'm not taking it out of context. To you what is reasonable and what you doubt is irrelevant. Just like your comments about the players always taking the most money. 

There are obviously emotional issues with family that over rode the money aspect. So guessing what is reasonable isn't a valid counter argument.

8 minutes ago, cjgalloway said:

Call the DBacks and ask about Ray I guess..

The Rockies should be another team to inquire on...

Fwiw, Ray is a great fantasy league pitcher for all his K’s, and that bails out the defense to an extent but also puts a lot of pressure on the bullpen due to elevated pitch counts in the 5th or 6th.

How many HR’s did he allow?

He’s one of those guys like Betts in the sign and extend camp who just might be wondering if the showers of money coming down from heaven will quickly dry up again next offseason...as the owners are clearly trying to make the point they’re not suppressing salaries or colluding.

Or maybe another major economic recession hits over the next couple of years.

Betts will get his with another 6+ fWAR...but does Ray get Wheeler Bucks as the prettiest girl left without a date for prom?

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by caulfield12

6 minutes ago, cjgalloway said:

Call the DBacks and ask about Ray I guess..

Robbie Ray is basically Javier Vazquez that throws with his left hand. 

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

Robbie Ray is basically Javier Vazquez that throws with his left hand. 

A LH Vazquez? Sign me up. Vazquez was pretty damn good. 

We had a higher offer, I thought players always take the higher offer? 

Just now, TaylorStSox said:

A LH Vazquez? Sign me up. Vazquez was pretty damn good. 

You want a guy that ks a lot of hitters but has a 4.3-4.4 ERA? 

Does anyone know yet if we actually had the higher guaranteed dollars offer?

Just now, cjgalloway said:

Does anyone know yet if we actually had the higher guaranteed dollars offer?

That's what Twitter is saying.

No shame here. There isn't much you can do other than offer the other guy more money.

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

You want a guy that ks a lot of hitters but has a 4.3-4.4 ERA? 

He was pretty consistently a 4-6 WAR pitcher. If we can get that from the left side, I'd be more than stoked. 

You know, you could just walk away.

Just now, TaylorStSox said:

He was pretty consistently a 4-6 WAR pitcher. If we can get that from the left side, I'd be more than stoked. 

I BELIVEVE he's only had one year above a 1.7 WAR

8 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I'm not taking it out of context. To you what is reasonable and what you doubt is irrelevant. Just like your comments about the players always taking the most money. 

There are obviously emotional issues with family that over rode the money aspect. So guessing what is reasonable isn't a valid counter argument.

First off, while the dollar figure may have been slightly more, we don't know if the present day value was more or the tax ramifications, deferred payments, which probably both offers had, or other things.  It could just be that he thinks the Phillies are closer to winning but wants to be classy. But OK, assume his fiances family is the legit reason.  And I have never said players take the most money always. Ultimately the offers were too similar to blow that off, But if you bet on it, you will win a lot more than you lose.    In fact, if you read this thread, one person mentioned geography as an issue where the Sox may have to bump their offer a bit higher. That poster was me. 

You are taking the $20 million figure someone just threw out there as gospel. I wouldn't blame the White Sox for that. But $10 million over 5 years?  Admittedly, that is a bit much too, but the price of business. If it's time to win, let's get the best horses. 

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by Dick Allen

The idea of Javy was always greater than the sum of all his parts.

A $300 million arm who never could be anything more than a solid #3/4 and somehow always managed to give up untimely big innings or come out on the wrong side of decisions.

 

Holy hell is he insufferable

 

Just now, cjgalloway said:

I BELIVEVE he's only had one year above a 1.7 WAR

53.7 in 14 seasons according to fangraphs. 

1 minute ago, TaylorStSox said:

He was pretty consistently a 4-6 WAR pitcher. If we can get that from the left side, I'd be more than stoked. 

Ray doesn't pitch nearly as many innings as Vazquez did. 

His highest season he had a 3.3 WAR