5 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

You should evaluate almost everyone's (pitchers) career based on bWAR; fWAR is better for projections, bWAR is better for evaluating actual results. All that matters for a career is actual results, not projectable outcomes.

I know, and I agree. 

Just now, bmags said:

They didn't put up, because it wasn't enough to sign him. Not sure why this is so hard for you.

Um... hmmm

They implied they weren't going to be outbid. They weren't outbid. That's what putting up means. 

You can't make a decision for someone, sorry. 

Amazing how people can't grasp this simple concept. You were one of the main people screaming they just need to offer the most money last off-season; now they do, and you still b**** because they didn't pay enough of some "fiancee" tax that you knew nothing about. 

Maybe Wheeler wouldn't have even taken 150 million from the Sox. You honestly have no idea. 

Do you think an agent can call and tell a team... well, your bid is best but he doesn't really want to play with you guys because he prefers the east coast. Can you offer more and we'll think about it... lol

Just now, mqr said:

You seem to be implying that there is no number that is not worth going to. 

No, but I was quite comfortable spending what it took for wheeler because the replacements are awful, and you are going to spend maybe 3/4s as much for a player I'm much less likely to believe will be a significant rotation anchor, and that 1/4 flexibility is not that helpful.

2 minutes ago, Charlie Haeger's Knuckles said:

nah I'm an idiot and I need you to explain the difference.

I asked because as just a picture it doesn't convey anything about how the Sox are perceived. Sorry for trying to help you if you made a mistake. I'll remember next time that you are a dick.

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yeah, I am inspired that for the first time in my 32 years on this planet the White Sox said they would not be outbid for a high end target, and they weren't. 

You can get angry that the White Sox couldn't convince Wheeler's wife/fiancee to pick Chicago, I'll be happy that the organization finally fucking put up when they said they would. 

So it goes but the Sox were used to jack up the money from the Phil's. Basing your career move on your WAG desires may not be sound judgment. Not what I would do. 

3 minutes ago, hi8is said:

That’s obvious.

But what about if we OFFERED HIM 200 MILLION!!

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Um... hmmm

They implied they weren't going to be outbid. They weren't outbid. That's what putting up means. 

You can't make a decision for someone, sorry. 

Amazing how people can't grasp this simple concept. You were one of the main people screaming they just need to offer the most money last off-season; now they do, and you still b**** because they didn't pay enough of some "fiancee" tax that you knew nothing about. 

Maybe Wheeler wouldn't have even taken 150 million from the Sox. You honestly have no idea. 

Do you think an agent can call and tell a team... well, your bid is best but he doesn't really want to play with you guys because he prefers the east coast. Can you offer more and we'll think about it... lol

Uh, no.

In fact one of my main complaints about the white sox was clearly anchoring themselves foolishly to a low number and trying to hard ball when it would open themselves up to other teams to jump into the bidding. And that happened.

And all of the water carriers were saying "oooh, Jerry is negotiating, he's a smart businessman that negotiates  big deals all the time, he knows what he's doing".

1 minute ago, bmags said:

No, but I was quite comfortable spending what it took for wheeler because the replacements are awful, and you are going to spend maybe 3/4s as much for a player I'm much less likely to believe will be a significant rotation anchor, and that 1/4 flexibility is not that helpful.

So name a price; again, I'd love to hear how that conversation goes between an agent and a FO person.

Costs the Phillies 118 but for you guys, 130-135. You in?

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

So name a price; again, I'd love to hear how that conversation goes between an agent and a FO person.

Costs the Phillies 118 but for you guys, 130-135. You in?

I'm in.

Just now, bmags said:

Uh, no.

In fact one of my main complaints about the white sox was clearly anchoring themselves foolishly to a low number and trying to hard ball when it would open themselves up to other teams to jump into the bidding. And that happened.

And all of the water carriers were saying "oooh, Jerry is negotiating, he's a smart businessman that negotiates  big deals all the time, he knows what he's doing".

Please, tell me what the White Sox did wrong here. 

The guy signed before the Winter Meetings and you're acting like they drug this out like Machado. 

9 minutes ago, fathom said:

Heyman saying that Wheeler told Twins he wanted to stay on the East Coast

So it’s quite possible that all along even before all the bids, Wheeler already had his mind made up that he wanted to stay on the East Coast?

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by maloney.adam

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Please, tell me what the White Sox did wrong here. 

The guy signed before the Winter Meetings and you're acting like they drug this out like Machado. 

They targeted a player because he was attainable but tried to do it at the absolute minimum required value to the point the player went toward location convenience.

2 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

So it’s quite possible that all along even before all the bids, Wheeler wanted to stay on the East Coast so it may have been a waste of time offering him anything anyways?

Money talks.  He had a figure to leave and the Sox and others didn't meet it.  This is post ad hoc rationalizing it happens quite frequently with the bridesmade teams.  It wasn't his wife or reluctance to leave the east coast it was Chicago's offer wasn't good enough.

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by chitownsportsfan

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

So you think that the agent came back and said, you have the highest offer but for you to get Wheeler you need to actually spend even more?

How do you think an organization would view that phone call? 

16 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

So people are stupid for trusting the report on why Wheeler made the decision, and you're a genius for drawing your own conclusions that insinuate the White Sox are cheap failures again. Got it.

I am sure , during negotiations, the agent would mention he prefers the east coast for family reasons if that is the case. Just like players get NTC to extract more money and guarantees if moved, there is a figure that would have made that mute. I don't know what it is. You don't know what it is, but there is a decent chance that over 5 years it's less than what they paid to Mannys friends last year alone . 

You either convert or you dont. I don't think it's a good look to be the high bidder and lose ourt,especially if the guy isn't going back to his previous team or going to his childhood dream team.  

 

Just now, bmags said:

They targeted a player because he was attainable but tried to do it at the absolute minimum required value to the point the player went toward location convenience.

The minimum required value LOL?

They offered more money than every other team in baseball. So the Sox minimum value was more than every other team in the league. 

This is a pointless conversation; you're just bitter to be bitter. There's no basis for your anger, and the White Sox did what they said but didn't get the player. Shit happens. 

Have a good one.

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

They targeted a player because he was attainable but tried to do it at the absolute minimum required value to the point the player went toward location convenience.

They offered him a 20 million dollars more than anyone thought he was going to get when the offseason started. Probably closer to 30. 

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by mqr

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The minimum required value LOL?

They offered more money than every other team in baseball. So the Sox minimum value was more than every other team in the league. 

This is a pointless conversation; you're just bitter to be bitter. There's no basis for your anger, and the White Sox did what they said but didn't get the player. Shit happens. 

Have a good one.

Aren't you at least a little worried that supposedly offering the most money doesn't work either?

1 minute ago, mqr said:

They offered him a 20 million dollars more than anyone thought he was going to get when the offseason started. Probably closer to 30. 

Yea but the offseason has started...it's a fluid situation.

3 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Money talks.  He had a figure to leave and the Sox and others didn't meet it.  This is post ad hoc rationalizing it happens quite frequently with the bridesmade teams.  It wasn't his wife or reluctance to leave the east coast it was Chicago's offer wasn't good enough.

I’m not understanding how the Sox didn’t meet the offer? They had a higher bid and at worst they met the dollar amount with the taxes? 

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by maloney.adam

1 minute ago, maloney.adam said:

I’m not understanding how the Sox didn’t meet the offer? They had a higher bid and at worst they met the dollar amount with the taxes? 

by definition they didn't have the best offer because he didn't sign with them.  It's like 99% of the way pregnant.  "meeting the offer" is meaningless imo.  

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by chitownsportsfan

Just now, chitownsportsfan said:

Yea but the offseason has started...it's a fluid situation.

I understand that. But acting like Zack Wheeler is a no brainer at, idk, 150 is ridiculous. 

This sucks, but I'm not going to stomp my feet over it. 

3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Aren't you at least a little worried that supposedly offering the most money doesn't work either?

Seemed to work with Grandal ?‍♂️

2 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

I’m not understanding how the Sox didn’t meet the offer? They had a higher bid and at worst they met the dollar amount with the taxes? 

Clearly the white sox weren't in a position where meeting the offer was enough. Because we have learned that he accepted the phillies offer. So again, they tried to hit the bare minimum required and it failed. And we should all celebrate.

Bob Nightengale reporting that Sox final offer to Wheeler was 5/125.  Sucks they didn't get him, but they don't deserve any blame here.

10 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

So name a price; again, I'd love to hear how that conversation goes between an agent and a FO person.

Costs the Phillies 118 but for you guys, 130-135. You in?

No but I go and put a higher offer in on a better starting pitcher and there are 2 of those available. I thought I could get adequate performance here at a discount but the discount evaporated, so now I have no choice but to go pay full price.