1 hour ago, maloney.adam said:

Go after Ryu who had the best ERA last year and who had a better record than Wheeler. Quite frankly, also who has better overall career stats. Yes he’s just as injury prone but is a far better pitcher.

I'm leaning toward Ryu as well.  More potential upside at a lower $ commitment.

It's very obvious Wheeler gave the Sox a number to beat for the "inconvenience" of moving to Chicago and the Sox couldn't beat it.   OK, maybe it's a smart decision.  Maybe the extra 2 million AAV (or whatever he wanted) wasn't worth it.  But they just lit money on fire with Abreu so penny smart pound foolish and why would anybody give them the benefit of the doubt here?

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by chitownsportsfan

I'm not upset they didn't spend all of that money on a guy who only pitched in the NL.   Maybe the Sox want Cole anyway.

34 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Why?

Again with this E-Bay, buy-it-now, auction stuff.

The Sox came out with a big offer, yet people are still critical and said it should have been bigger?

No one presents their absolute top offer in any negotiation at the start; that would be terrible negotiating. 

I certainly didn’t gather THAT from his post. 

1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

It's very obvious Wheeler gave the Sox a number to beat 

It is?

5 minutes ago, bmags said:

Clearly the white sox weren't in a position where meeting the offer was enough. Because we have learned that he accepted the phillies offer. So again, they tried to hit the bare minimum required and it failed. And we should all celebrate.

If the guys preference was to stay on the East Coast, you're already offering him more than most imagined he'd get a couple months ago, you're the top bidder, at the  tippy top of your valuation, AND he's turning down multiple millions to play elsewhere due to family ties....it just probably wasn't going to work out.  

Just now, mqr said:

It is?

if it's not, then wheeler should fire his agent or his agent should fire him.

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

If the guys preference was to stay on the East Coast, you're already offering him more than most imagined he'd get a couple months ago, you're the top bidder, at the  tippy top of your valuation, AND he's turning down multiple millions to play elsewhere due to family ties....it just probably wasn't going to work out.  

Well, they kinda need things to work out. Because they aren't good at drafting, or developing, or scouting. It's not my fault the white sox rebuild requires so much additional help from FA, but since it does I expect them to execute. 

1 minute ago, mqr said:

It is?

No.

At the point, my plan A would be to pivot to Cole and Strasburg, understanding that is likely a pipedream.

Plan B: Get Ryu on a reasonable 3 year deal, and find a 1 year stop gap for the other spot.  

Overpaying MadBum, or trading from our elite prospects to add pitching isn't the answer.  

The White Sox offered 6% more than the Phillies.  To me, it’s really hard to say they did the bare minimum to try and land Wheeler.

5 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

It's very obvious Wheeler gave the Sox a number to beat for the "inconvenience" of moving to Chicago and the Sox couldn't beat it.   OK, maybe it's a smart decision.  Maybe the extra 2 million AAV (or whatever he wanted) wasn't worth it.  But they just lit money on fire with Abreu so penny smart pound foolish and why would anybody give them the benefit of the doubt here?

they offered 7 million more, thats significant. I cant be made at the FO here

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The White Sox offered 6% more than the Phillies.  To me, it’s really hard to say they did the bare minimum to try and land Wheeler.

For the sake of argument if they knew he wanted say 10% more to play in Chicago and knew they wouldn't beat an offer by 10% they sure did waste a lot of time that could have been spent on more willing targets.

It's a failure, not sure how to spin it otherwise.  There's no participation trophy in FA offers.

Just now, bmags said:

Well, they kinda need things to work out. Because they aren't good at drafting, or developing, or scouting. It's not my fault the white sox rebuild requires so much additional help from FA, but since it does I expect them to execute. 

I hear ya.  I am frustrated as well.  Wheeler was the best (realistic) fit.  But he sounded a fuck load better at 4/$80M as we all hoped in early October, or even 5/$100M than 5/$130M or whatever it would have required to pry him to the midwest.    

Wheeler isn't necessarily an organizational changing player.  He's a good not great pitcher getting paid like he's ELITE, with limited track record to back it up.  I would have been happy to get him a 5/$120M, but also am OK acknowledging that anything over that would have been crazy.  

Life goes on.  This hurts for 2020 for sure, but I think that there is better than a coin flip's chance that deal turns into a nightmare.  And to be clear, I said that multiple times before today.  

It seems to me that Wheeler probably told his agent to gather final offers last night or early today then chose the one he preferred and signed the deal. In the end his desire to be close to family/stay in the NL/stay on the East coast was more important to him then the extra $2-7 million.

Can someone show me the Tweet or proof we have that the Sox offered more money?

32 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Never wrote that. But it is an odd excuse, however, even if the White Sox offer was technically higher, it was not a significant sum given the contracts total value. RH said the south side was now a destination.  

He obviously prefers Philadelphia, and I just mentioned it is possible that finances family might not be the real reason or only reason, but if it was. there are ways around it, especially if you are a destination like the team claims.

 

Your place of preferred residence does matter if money between two places of employment are equal.  I would choose Chicago or Midwest over East Coast if all else was equal.

2 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

they offered 7 million more, thats significant. I cant be made at the FO here

Has $125M offer been floated by someone noteworthy? I've just seen the 5/$120M. 

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

Has $125M offer been floated by someone noteworthy? I've just seen the 5/$120M. 

Nightengale, if that's worthy

2 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

For the sake of argument if they knew he wanted say 10% more to play in Chicago and knew they wouldn't beat an offer by 10% they sure did waste a lot of time that could have been spent on more willing targets.

It's a failure, not sure how to spin it otherwise.  There's no participation trophy in FA offers.

 

Just now, mqr said:

Nightengale, if that's worthy

He said, and I quote "The Chicago #WhiteSox had the high bid on the table for Zack Wheeler at $120 million-plus."

3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I hear ya.  I am frustrated as well.  Wheeler was the best (realistic) fit.  But he sounded a fuck load better at 4/$80M as we all hoped in early October, or even 5/$100M than 5/$130M or whatever it would have required to pry him to the midwest.    

Wheeler isn't necessarily an organizational changing player.  He's a good not great pitcher getting paid like he's ELITE, with limited track record to back it up.  I would have been happy to get him a 5/$120M, but also am OK acknowledging that anything over that would have been crazy.  

Life goes on.  This hurts for 2020 for sure, but I think that there is better than a coin flip's chance that deal turns into a nightmare.  And to be clear, I said that multiple times before today.  

Agreed.  It's not like he's Stephen Strasburg for example.

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by 35thstreetswarm

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

He said, and I quote "The Chicago #WhiteSox had the high bid on the table for Zack Wheeler at $120 million-plus."

he elaborated in this article

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by mqr

Just now, mqr said:

he elaborated in this articlep

Thank you, Sir. 

3 minutes ago, supernuke said:

It seems to me that Wheeler probably told his agent to gather final offers last night or early today then chose the one he preferred and signed the deal. In the end his desire to be close to family/stay in the NL/stay on the East coast was more important to him then the extra $2-7 million.

Doesn't sound unreasonable when you consider the whole 5 year home/work experience.

4 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I hear ya.  I am frustrated as well.  Wheeler was the best (realistic) fit.  But he sounded a fuck load better at 4/$80M as we all hoped in early October, or even 5/$100M than 5/$130M or whatever it would have required to pry him to the midwest.    

Wheeler isn't necessarily an organizational changing player.  He's a good not great pitcher getting paid like he's ELITE, with limited track record to back it up.  I would have been happy to get him a 5/$120M, but also am OK acknowledging that anything over that would have been crazy.  

Life goes on.  This hurts for 2020 for sure, but I think that there is better than a coin flip's chance that deal turns into a nightmare.  And to be clear, I said that multiple times before today.  

The thing that sucks about wheeler compared to machado is his money will get redistributed elsewhere, and those options are not as inspiring.

Next years class is middling, maybe there is Ray, but ideally they could have made a run at the OF with a much more favorable class. But the top level pitchers next year are the exact same level you’d just expect Sox to bow out of (syndegaard, etc)