“I watch everything in a ballpark from that dugout. How the [bleep] did more managers not know that every time there’s banging from [the Astros’] dugout, a certain pitch was coming? What the [bleep] were you guys watching? The goddamn [analytics] book they gave you, the tablet, the iPad? Then anyone can manage. Right now, a lot of players do whatever they want to do because the coaches are a bunch of kids with no credentials. I had [a coaching staff with] Harold Baines, Tim Raines, Joey Cora, Greg Walker, [Don] Cooper — I don’t think he’s the best pitching coach, but he made you believe you were the best [pitcher] that night. Now, you have players that are like, ‘Who the [bleep] are you? I’m going to call my high school coach or my dad. They’re better.’ Then what are we even doing here?”

https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports-saturday/2020/7/18/21329284/ozzie-guillen-white-sox-marlins-manager-fidel-castro

Fair enough, but confidence certainly worked in turning around a lot of our pitchers. Success is success. I respect Ozzie and his take here though, there’s pros and cons to Coop. I’m sure we’re not long for a change on that front anyway. 

He makes good points.  Always love an old grizzled opinion that calls young people soft.  

4 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

He makes good points.  Always love an old grizzled opinion that calls young people soft.  

I dont know if its soft he is getting at as much as that with new analytics managers just read an iPad and have no feel for the game. That's what I thought he meant. However with Ozzie you never know for sure.

If we miss the playoffs Ozzie should get the job back,

9 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I dont know if its soft he is getting at as much as that with new analytics managers just read an iPad and have no feel for the game. That's what I thought he meant. However with Ozzie you never know for sure.

Oh I agree.  I meant just more generally, salty opinions about “people today” are always a fun read.  
 

I detected a bit of grizzled salt with the “going to see my dad, high school coach” thing

17 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

Oh I agree.  I meant just more generally, salty opinions about “people today” are always a fun read.  
 

I detected a bit of grizzled salt with the “going to see my dad, high school coach” thing

Yes.

45 minutes ago, Nokona said:

If we miss the playoffs Ozzie should get the job back,

Sox fans are weird. One one hand, you have people that criticize Reinsdorf for being too loyal. On the other hand, you have people who post insane stuff like this. I'm just going to assume people forget Ozzie signed a backroom deal with the Marlins while he was still the Sox manager and that he's a drunk. 

1 hour ago, Jerksticks said:

Oh I agree.  I meant just more generally, salty opinions about “people today” are always a fun read.  
 

I detected a bit of grizzled salt with the “going to see my dad, high school coach” thing

Which is funny,  because his kids got opportunities because of who their dad is.

Ozzie quit on the team, don't want to see him in a White Sox uni ever again.

3 hours ago, Nokona said:

If we miss the playoffs Ozzie should get the job back,

Not a Ricky guy, never was, but he absolutely deserves to be evaluated with this roster

That being said, would love Ozzie back, obviously he'd love it too...Sucks he quit on this team over a contract because he's always been one of my favorites

6 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

“I watch everything in a ballpark from that dugout. How the [bleep] did more managers not know that every time there’s banging from [the Astros’] dugout, a certain pitch was coming? What the [bleep] were you guys watching? The goddamn [analytics] book they gave you, the tablet, the iPad? Then anyone can manage. Right now, a lot of players do whatever they want to do because the coaches are a bunch of kids with no credentials. I had [a coaching staff with] Harold Baines, Tim Raines, Joey Cora, Greg Walker, [Don] Cooper — I don’t think he’s the best pitching coach, but he made you believe you were the best [pitcher] that night. Now, you have players that are like, ‘Who the [bleep] are you? I’m going to call my high school coach or my dad. They’re better.’ Then what are we even doing here?”

https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports-saturday/2020/7/18/21329284/ozzie-guillen-white-sox-marlins-manager-fidel-castro

Ozzie's freestyle rants like this one are why he is no longer welcome as a manager.

4 hours ago, TaylorStSox said:

Sox fans are weird. One one hand, you have people that criticize Reinsdorf for being too loyal. On the other hand, you have people who post insane stuff like this. I'm just going to assume people forget Ozzie signed a backroom deal with the Marlins while he was still the Sox manager and that he's a drunk. 

Why do you call him a drunk?  

I understand the comments about quitting on the team and I agree...but my arm could be twisted to view it as it was the end of an era for the Sox in general.  Took a couple years but the whole thing top to bottom turned over those last few years with Ozzie being one of the first to go.  2010-2011 looked good on paper though but it was the end.  
 

If Rentería for whatever reason isn’t the answer, although he deserves this year and at least all of next year at a minimum, my arm could be twisted for him to come back as long as his kids aren’t allowed to breathe any air outside of a dungeon.  
 

Agh, this all just feels too forced the more I think about it.  

So, like, teams did know the astros were cheating. 

Many people in baseball hate that all those non pro ball guys like Kyle Boddy, ochart, lisle, Albert and so on are getting jobs but that is the trend.

The days of big personality managers are over, nowadays managers are more like mid level executives of companies in a way that they are basically not making decisions but their job is to execute the plan of the analytics people and the top level management (front office).

Ozzie was great but that type wouldn't work anymore today.

3 hours ago, poppysox said:

Ozzie's freestyle rants like this one are why he is no longer welcome as a manager.

He has zero chance of working again in baseball cause of his mouth that roars. It's all about PC and he won't play.

21 hours ago, TaylorStSox said:

Sox fans are weird. One one hand, you have people that criticize Reinsdorf for being too loyal. On the other hand, you have people who post insane stuff like this. I'm just going to assume people forget Ozzie signed a backroom deal with the Marlins while he was still the Sox manager and that he's a drunk. 

We all knew it was over, it was the worst secret in town.  That doesn't bother me at all.

 

Ozzie still doesn't get what happened in Miami. I don't even care what he said about Castro; if he had said that when he was still in Chicago, he might have gotten some heat for it, but it would have died away after a time. He just didn't understand the political climate in Southern Florida, and he still doesn't. There's the first amendment; the man can voice any opinion he wants, but it helps if you know what kind of backlash you may experience. 

I understand fans like him because he speaks his mind. I do, to an extent. I just believe he should think a little deeper before he does speak. The truth is that he alienated many fans here. Maybe he doesn't understand that, either.

Time to move forward. No more Ozzie as Sox manager.

On 7/18/2020 at 1:21 PM, TaylorStSox said:

Sox fans are weird. One one hand, you have people that criticize Reinsdorf for being too loyal. On the other hand, you have people who post insane stuff like this. I'm just going to assume people forget Ozzie signed a backroom deal with the Marlins while he was still the Sox manager and that he's a drunk. 

Dont care

 

Just want him back

Ozzie burned the White Sox bridge down to the ground. He won't ever manage here again.

Edited July 19, 20205 yr by Sarava

 

Ozzie deserves a 2nd chance. He brought this team a world series for gods sake. We currently have a certified clown as our manager, yet we won't consider Ozzie?

 

I'm with @greg775 on this one. The sport is too PC now a days. A brash man's man like Ozzie won't get another shot. 

Would Ozzie  have allowed a guy to have his child on the field and in the clubhouse like Ventura and Hahn did ?  What about Sale acting up over the 83 uniform? Or Eaton siding with him and opening his mouth?   If Ozzie suspected Houston of cheating do you think he would have remained silent?

No one can   take 2005 away from Ozzie. He will always be the best manager we ever had, until we win another one with another Manager.

Let's win this season and put this issue behind us.

Edited July 19, 20205 yr by tray

40 minutes ago, tray said:

Would Ozzie  have allowed a guy to have his child on the field and in the clubhouse like Ventura and Hahn did ?  What about Sale acting up over the 83 uniform? Or Eaton siding with him and opening his mouth?   If Ozzie suspected Houston of cheating do you think he would have remained silent?

No one can   take 2005 away from Ozzie. He will always be the best manager we ever had, until we win another one with another Manager.

Let's win this season and put this issue behind us.

These are good points. You've convinced me that not only do the Sox need Ozzie, but the league does. Ozzie wouldn't kept his mouth shut while the Astros cheated against the Sox. He would have have said something and gotten the conversation started much sooner. The league needs a manager like Ozzie again.