4 hours ago, Jose Abreu said:

I would like this but I feel like Madrigal is the exact player TLR would love, bat leadoff, play all 162, etc.

Madrigal is the exact player we should all love.

Wong officially a FA. 

2b free agents

Lemahieu

Wong

Villar

La Stella

Hernandez

Profar

Schoop

Depth - M Gonzalez, Iglesias...

And that's not even including possible 2b signees like Gregorius and Semien (and obviously Simmons)

 

16 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Madrigal is the exact player we should all love.

Why exactly?  You win by hitting home runs, as illustrated this postseason.

13 minutes ago, fathom said:

Why exactly?  You win by hitting home runs, as illustrated this postseason.

Because he’s good at baseball? 

11 minutes ago, fathom said:

Why exactly?  You win by hitting home runs, as illustrated this postseason.

A .376 OBP is not bad for a first-year player.  Those home runs look a whole lot better with men on base.  Add in some useful defense and a bit of speed and you have a good baseball player.  Nelson Fox was an MVP with less power than Madrigal.  I just happen to be one of those old-fashioned baseball fans that like to see men on base and scoring on occasion without a blast by some overweight lumberjack.  

2 minutes ago, poppysox said:

A .376 OBP is not bad for a first-year player.  Those home runs look a whole lot better with men on base.  Add in some useful defense and a bit of speed and you have a good baseball player.  Nelson Fox was an MVP with less power than Madrigal.  I just happen to be one of those old-fashioned baseball fans that like to see men on base and scoring on occasion without a blast by some overweight lumberjack.  

This is not how you use OBP

20 minutes ago, poppysox said:

A .376 OBP is not bad for a first-year player.  Those home runs look a whole lot better with men on base.  Add in some useful defense and a bit of speed and you have a good baseball player.  Nelson Fox was an MVP with less power than Madrigal.  I just happen to be one of those old-fashioned baseball fans that like to see men on base and scoring on occasion without a blast by some overweight lumberjack.  

If he were actually a good defender or baserunner then I'd like him, and no, I'm not just basing this off the 2020 season

2 hours ago, Kalapse said:

This is not how you use OBP

How would you like to use it?

7 hours ago, fathom said:

Because he’s a clubhouse cancer

Evidently not

3 hours ago, Jose Abreu said:

If he were actually a good defender or baserunner then I'd like him, and no, I'm not just basing this off the 2020 season

He's already 23 years old, has already played 29 games in the majors and this is Soxtalk. There's zero room for optimism on this kid and his .340 BA and .376 OBP

Edited October 29, 20205 yr by michelangelosmonkey
spelling

3 hours ago, Jose Abreu said:

If he were actually a good defender or baserunner then I'd like him, and no, I'm not just basing this off the 2020 season

I’ve always thought his base running got overrated because he’s supposed to be a smart, heady player. But I thought his defense has always been solid. Was his defense not good in college or in the minors?

1 hour ago, poppysox said:

How would you like to use it?

To hold up Nick Madrigal's .376 OBP as some kind of indicator that he's going to get on base a lot in the future is disingenuous, that came with a .036 ISOd (OBP-AVG), if he were actually any good at getting on base he'd have a .400 OBP with a .340 batting average. A 12% BB rate being the backbone of a .376 OBP is sustainable, a .340 average propping it up is not. Madrigal proved he was good at only 1 thing last year and that's hitting singles, he was bad at everything else a baseball player is asked to do on the field. He could absolutely get better and have a high BB rate in the future but last year was no indication that it's going to happen.

If he can only hit singles why would anyone walk him?

23 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

I’ve always thought his base running got overrated because he’s supposed to be a smart, heady player. But I thought his defense has always been solid. Was his defense not good in college or in the minors?

I wouldn't say his defense was bad, but I think it definitely was overrated coming up, and you saw why this year. I don't think he has the range for the gold glove ceiling many think he has, but he can/should be average defensively. 

I've always maintained that Luis Robert is (was) the Sox prospect for which the term "gold glove defense" should be thrown around as often as it was for Madrigal... hopefully he wins it next week.

4 hours ago, Jose Abreu said:

If he were actually a good defender or baserunner then I'd like him, and no, I'm not just basing this off the 2020 season

You think Nick Madrigal is not a good defender based off what exactly?

10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You think Nick Madrigal is not a good defender based off what exactly?

Did he not just win an award for best defensive second baseman in the minors in 2019?

17 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You think Nick Madrigal is not a good defender based off what exactly?

I clarified in the post directly above yours

1 hour ago, Jose Abreu said:

I clarified in the post directly above yours

Gotcha thanks

7 hours ago, Kalapse said:

To hold up Nick Madrigal's .376 OBP as some kind of indicator that he's going to get on base a lot in the future is disingenuous, that came with a .036 ISOd (OBP-AVG), if he were actually any good at getting on base he'd have a .400 OBP with a .340 batting average. A 12% BB rate being the backbone of a .376 OBP is sustainable, a .340 average propping it up is not. Madrigal proved he was good at only 1 thing last year and that's hitting singles, he was bad at everything else a baseball player is asked to do on the field. He could absolutely get better and have a high BB rate in the future but last year was no indication that it's going to happen.

You are entitled to your opinion...I just don't agree with it.

Great stuff from Law in here:

https://theathletic.com/2153856/2020/10/29/keith-law-top-40-free-agents-ranking-of-the-mlb-offseason-2020/?redirected=1

One bit I hadn't thought of:

39. Chris Archer, RHP, age 32

Archer missed the 2020 season after surgery to repair thoracic outlet syndrome, and he had his worst-ever season in 2019 after a mid-season trade to the Pirates the year before. He has a great arm, with an out pitch in his slider, and he wouldn’t be the first pitcher to struggle under the previous Pirates’ coaching staff and find success elsewhere. If he’s healthy, he should have plenty of suitors on one-year deals.

Other favorable writeups for Gausman as well. Also favorable bit on Kluber that was nice to see, as I wasn't sure how risky I was being still being interested i him:

33. Corey Kluber, RHP, age 35

Kluber threw just one inning in 2020 before a slight (grade 2) tear in his throwing shoulder ended his season, although it’s unclear if he will require surgery. That comes on the heels of a 2019 season lost to a broken arm after he was hit by a line drive and a lat muscle injury he suffered while rehabbing. We haven’t seen the “real” Kluber since 2018, when he led the AL in innings pitched and was third in the Cy Young voting, although his stuff was pretty close to normal when he did pitch in the last two seasons (by velocity, with slightly lower spin rates). Assuming the muscle tear has healed, I’d certainly throw him a one-year deal with incentives to see if the 2018 version — or something close to it — is still in there.

Madrigal doesn't hold much trade value. Of current assets, Eloy might bring back a quality starter with several years of team control in trade. Despite his HR power he is a defensive liability who limits lineup flexibility. Moving him would not be a popular move but, other than Bauer, none of the current FA crop excite.  Maybe Seattle (Gonzalez and Kelenic) for package headed by Eloy or Milwaukee (Burnes) ? I feel with COVID uncertainty, spending will be curtailed and teams seeking to fill needs will do so through trades that don't add much payroll.  

51 minutes ago, Flash said:

Madrigal doesn't hold much trade value. Of current assets, Eloy might bring back a quality starter with several years of team control in trade. Despite his HR power he is a defensive liability who limits lineup flexibility. Moving him would not be a popular move but, other than Bauer, none of the current FA crop excite.  Maybe Seattle (Gonzalez and Kelenic) for package headed by Eloy or Milwaukee (Burnes) ? I feel with COVID uncertainty, spending will be curtailed and teams seeking to fill needs will do so through trades that don't add much payroll.  

 There is no way that they are going to trade Eloy. The guy will be the White Sox best over-all hitter for years to come and lead the league in Home runs and RBIs. People forget that he is a very young player also and athletic so his defense will and is getting better.

I just don't think the WS will pony up for a difference making FA pitcher. The guys we would want in trade carry 50+FV and more. We aren't moving Robert or Giolito and TA and Moncada are unlikely (and less valued). If we want a difference maker in trade, we need to be prepared to move someone of value and, for me, Eloy is expendable.

Saw that Brad Hand was waived. I'm telling you, this is going to be a wild offseason of "stunning" cuts. 

Man do I hope that Jerry is in a spending mood - cause there will be talent out there for the taking if he opens his checkbook. And I hope he opens it on 2-3 year deals that pay over "market price" for next year, but are considered "below market price" in regular years so that we lock in a super roster for 2-4 years when everything is back to normal. This is the pedal to the metal time, not the sit on your pennies (billions) time. 

8 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

Saw that Brad Hand was waived. I'm telling you, this is going to be a wild offseason of "stunning" cuts. 

Man do I hope that Jerry is in a spending mood - cause there will be talent out there for the taking if he opens his checkbook. And I hope he opens it on 2-3 year deals that pay over "market price" for next year, but are considered "below market price" in regular years so that we lock in a super roster for 2-4 years when everything is back to normal. This is the pedal to the metal time, not the sit on your pennies (billions) time. 

I just saw the report on MLBTR. Their hope apparently is that another team claims him and picks up his $10m option so they don't have to pay a $1m buyout. I see zero chance of him becoming a free agent. I would definitely put in a claim. If he made it to us, you'd have Hand, Bummer, and Fry solidifying the left side.

Edited October 29, 20205 yr by manbearpuig