Offseason Thread

[hi8is]

20 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

After taxes and his people take their cut, I would imagine he doesn't have another 87 to spend. Plus if he spends that on 1 car, I would think he spends a ton of other things. And I would think the White Sox can't be too thrilled. Guys don't usually spend 1 million on a Lambo to go 45 in a 35, and if you have ever driven in Soutb Florida with all the older drivers, it can be a little hairy just driving normally.

I once rented a corvette stingray in St. Petersburg. It’s impossible to drive those types of cars at a reasonable speed. Got a ticket going 87 in a either 65 or 70 zone.

Never paid it since I live in California and was a young idiot. Probably have a warrant there. 😆 

[Chicago White Sox]

14 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Are you Jon Werner?

[hi8is]

22 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Maybe we could trade Nick Madrigal for him… oh… wait…

[oldsox]

21 minutes ago, hi8is said:

I once rented a corvette stingray in St. Petersburg. It’s impossible to drive those types of cars at a reasonable speed. Got a ticket going 87 in a either 65 or 70 zone.

Never paid it since I live in California and was a young idiot. Probably have a warrant there. 😆 

Statute of Limitations apply.

[hi8is]

23 minutes ago, oldsox said:

Statute of Limitations apply.

Sweet neglect wins for once!!!

[South Side Hit Men]

4 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Are you Jon Werner?

No, but found it amusing he is both a Sox and Steelers fan (my choice when I followed the NFL in the 70s-90s). Don't have a twitter, facebook, google, etc..

Back to the offseason discussion, I haven't seen much discussion regarding the development plans for Vaughn and Kopech next season, but I wonder if the Sox are considering starting both in AAA (or Kopech perhaps closer by or in Arizona) to start the year.

Vaughn is going to be a stud, but he was rushed last season out of necessity, and may benefit from working on hitting / pitch recognition on the outside sliders that are his kryptonite. He handled both the promotion and LF excellent, but in the second half it was clear he needed to work on at bats vs. RHP. 

In terms of Kopech, he can work on developing his 3 and 4 pitches, and start off his MLB SP career prepared, versus the path taken last year. The Sox have the ability this offseason to have the depth to allow them to do this (and also cover injuries the rest of the season), and give both players the best chance to succeed for the rest of 2022 and beyond.

I really think they did a solid job managing Kopech's innings last year, but he needs a chance to develop his pitches  and be comfortable before being thrown into the fire. They also need to limit his innings based on his 70 inning base from this season. It will be interesting to watch, but hopefully he can start in June or July with the club, and reach 120-140 including October.

Just hoping the FO is making the final call with a long term perspective.

 

[southsider2k5]

A guy like Andrew Vaughn gets nothing out of going to AAA. He us a nearly finished hitting product who needs to see MLB pitching to finish 

[South Side Hit Men]

52 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

A guy like Andrew Vaughn gets nothing out of going to AAA. He us a nearly finished hitting product who needs to see MLB pitching to finish 

In more normal circumstances, he would have had the benefit of AAA to get acclimated. I agree he will ultimately need to succeed against MLB, but he will need to play most every game to do so. Don't want him to get discouraged if he continues to have issues against RHP.

If Tony is going to platoon Andrew, it will further prevent any growth. I'm good with either path (start at AAA or MLB) as long as he's pegged for regular playing time, and is not used in a platoon. Same goes for getting cute with Kopech in 2022, who should focus on starting from Day 1 of ST, though with intentional pace to allow him to pitch the final 3-4 months of the year. He shouldn't return to the bullpen, even for a few months to open the season.

 

[hankchifan]

Adam Duvall just hit a grand slam in game 5 of the World Series.  He hit 38 homers during the season.  He was acquired from the Marlins mid season for a journeyman catcher.  He would have looked pretty good in RF for the Sox. While our FO was having wet dreams with Kimbrel, Atlanta was picking up 4 good outfielders relatively cheap: Duvall, Soler, Pederson and Eddie Rosario ( hitting 426 in the postseason). Great job Hahn!

[Kyyle23]

1 minute ago, hankchifan said:

Adam Duvall just hit a grand slam in game 5 of the World Series.  He hit 38 homers during the season.  He was acquired from the Marlins mid season for a journeyman catcher.  He would have looked pretty good in RF for the Sox. While our FO was having wet dreams with Kimbrel, Atlanta was picking up 4 good outfielders relatively cheap: Duvall, Soler, Pederson and Eddie Rosario ( hitting 426 in the postseason). Great job Hahn!

Cool

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said:

In more normal circumstances, he would have had the benefit of AAA to get acclimated. I agree he will ultimately need to succeed against MLB, but he will need to play most every game to do so. Don't want him to get discouraged if he continues to have issues against RHP.

If Tony is going to platoon Andrew, it will further prevent any growth. I'm good with either path (start at AAA or MLB) as long as he's pegged for regular playing time, and is not used in a platoon. Same goes for getting cute with Kopech in 2022, who should focus on starting from Day 1 of ST, though with intentional pace to allow him to pitch the final 3-4 months of the year. He shouldn't return to the bullpen, even for a few months to open the season.

 

But he didn't.  What didn't happen in the past doesn't matter.  He's he and he has already proved he belongs.  You actually can stunt his growth by not challenging him at this point.

[oldsox]

1 hour ago, hankchifan said:

Adam Duvall just hit a grand slam in game 5 of the World Series.  He hit 38 homers during the season.  He was acquired from the Marlins mid season for a journeyman catcher.  He would have looked pretty good in RF for the Sox. While our FO was having wet dreams with Kimbrel, Atlanta was picking up 4 good outfielders relatively cheap: Duvall, Soler, Pederson and Eddie Rosario ( hitting 426 in the postseason). Great job Hahn!

What's really goofy is that Cleveland traded Rosario for 90 year old Pablo Sandoval, all 300 pounds of him, and they immediately cut Pabs.  Trade should not have been allowed.

[SonofaRoache]

1 hour ago, Kyyle23 said:

Cool

It is. 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, hankchifan said:

Adam Duvall just hit a grand slam in game 5 of the World Series.  He hit 38 homers during the season.  He was acquired from the Marlins mid season for a journeyman catcher.  He would have looked pretty good in RF for the Sox. While our FO was having wet dreams with Kimbrel, Atlanta was picking up 4 good outfielders relatively cheap: Duvall, Soler, Pederson and Eddie Rosario ( hitting 426 in the postseason). Great job Hahn!

I’m not going to take anything away from Atlanta, but them picking up “4 good outfielders” is because they had 0 good outfielders at the time.  Also, most deadlines the most valuable pieces are elite back-end relievers.  b**** all you want about the price, but people keep acting like pursuing what should have been an elite bullpen addition was somehow stupid and it’s absolutely laughable.

[Kyyle23]

33 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

It is. 

Yup 

[Two-Gun Pete]

29 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

b**** all you want about the price, but people keep acting like pursuing what should have been an elite bullpen addition was somehow stupid and it’s absolutely laughable.

Wait, so a deal that didn't work, and even IF Kimbrel was lights out, wouldn't have made the Sox better than Houston isn't "stupid?"

By all means, do clarify.

 

Because, once again, even if Kimbrel was lights out, this years SOX team was never better than this years trashstros team. And because the trashstros are/were better, this move was doomed to failure from conception. 

And, to your point, trading 10 years of control for 30 IP is dumb, especially at THIS point in the competitive window. 

But sure: tell us how this was somehow NOT a dumb trade. 

[maloney.adam]

2 hours ago, hankchifan said:

Adam Duvall just hit a grand slam in game 5 of the World Series.  He hit 38 homers during the season.  He was acquired from the Marlins mid season for a journeyman catcher.  He would have looked pretty good in RF for the Sox. While our FO was having wet dreams with Kimbrel, Atlanta was picking up 4 good outfielders relatively cheap: Duvall, Soler, Pederson and Eddie Rosario ( hitting 426 in the postseason). Great job Hahn!

The Braves are going to have an overcrowded outfield next year so someone has to go.

Edited November 1, 2021 by maloney.adam

[SCCWS]

12 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

But what are the Braves and Astros spending on their pens…?  Less than the White Sox at season’s end, even if you combine the two together.  

Minor league development/draft/trade.

It is not spending.  The Sox spent a ton on Kimbrel. My point is that we keep hearing about 2B and RF and they need to be addressed.  But so far this postseason, the bullpens are really determining the outcomes. The starters are not playing a major role. Maybe our top priority should be the bullpen before 2B and RF. We talked a lot on this board of what we thought was the ability of our pen going in to this season.  Unfortunately our pen was not a factor in the playoffs based on the Astros . Hopefully  next year we have the right pieces in our pen.  

[iWiN4PreP]

10 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

Cool

No offense, but these comments make you look immature and childish for an admin.

Guy presented a very correct and accurate point and you spam it with 'cool'. 

 

On topic of Duvall: Definitely true that the White Sox could have added him/other slept on outfielders at the deadline and been much better off. The CWS organization moves have been pretty bad ever since we 'got good'. 

[Kyyle23]

4 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

No offense, but these comments make you look immature and childish for an admin.

Guy presented a very correct and accurate point and you spam it with 'cool'. 

 

On topic of Duvall: Definitely true that the White Sox could have added him/other slept on outfielders at the deadline and been much better off. The CWS organization moves have been pretty bad ever since we 'got good'. 

No offense, but that guy posts different variations of that same post in everywhere he posts, that's immature and childish.  The deadline moves didn't work, now everyone wants to put on their 20/20 hindsight glasses and talk about how they definitely should have traded for every one of the Braves outfielders because that's what we all wanted, right?   More right handed outfielders, everyone was asking for that.   

[iWiN4PreP]

25 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

No offense, but that guy posts different variations of that same post in everywhere he posts, that's immature and childish.  The deadline moves didn't work, now everyone wants to put on their 20/20 hindsight glasses and talk about how they definitely should have traded for every one of the Braves outfielders because that's what we all wanted, right?   More right handed outfielders, everyone was asking for that.   

Joc Pederson would have been a nice trade candidate.

It never hurts buying these guys for cheap as 4th/5th OFrs for a playoff team.

It's more than just the trade deadline moves that have been bad. It was signing Eaton when everyone knew that was a dumb thing to do... signing Keuchel. Consistently not signing low valued OFrs to deepen our MLB team, etc. 

 

[Chicago White Sox]

8 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Wait, so a deal that didn't work, and even IF Kimbrel was lights out, wouldn't have made the Sox better than Houston isn't "stupid?"

By all means, do clarify.

 

Because, once again, even if Kimbrel was lights out, this years SOX team was never better than this years trashstros team. And because the trashstros are/were better, this move was doomed to failure from conception. 

And, to your point, trading 10 years of control for 30 IP is dumb, especially at THIS point in the competitive window. 

But sure: tell us how this was somehow NOT a dumb trade. 

You are saying this with the benefit of hindsight.  Acting like we somehow couldn’t beat the Astros in the post-season on July 31st is straight up dumb.  Are you really going to stand by this point?  I mean the Braves are about to beat them with four scrap-heap OF additions and a beat up rotation.  Saying the move was “doomed to failure from conception” is just completely untrue and laughable.  Other than criticizing the price, which is completely fair, you haven’t made one point that isn’t hindsight based.  Many of the best organizations in baseball wanted Craig Kimbrel, including the Dodgers and Rays, and yet half of the posters here on Soxtalk including yourself knew the best reliever in baseball was going to fold like a house of cards down the stretch.  It sucks that we don’t have Madrigal, but you need to separate the loss of him from what the addition of Kimbrel should have done for our post-season chances.  The trade didn’t work out for us, but the only part that was dumb was the price we paid.  Had we won a World Series and Kimbrel is still the best reliever in baseball sitting on a 1/$16M deal no one would be bitching right now.

[Kyyle23]

17 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

Joc Pederson would have been a nice trade candidate.

It never hurts buying these guys for cheap as 4th/5th OFrs for a playoff team.

It's more than just the trade deadline moves that have been bad. It was signing Eaton when everyone knew that was a dumb thing to do... signing Keuchel. Consistently not signing low valued OFrs to deepen our MLB team, etc. 

 

We are sitting here on the second year of making the playoffs bitching about a guy who got cut in May instead of looking forward to next year, and Joc sucked balls with the cubs and was basically benched,  nice of him to come back in Atlanta during a playoff race but I don't remember a ton of people on this site begging for Joc.  
Like seriously, it just doesn't make sense to me.  The Eaton move sucked they cut bait and moved on.  Will crying about Eaton now make it better for me?  No.  
 

 

[oldsox]

Eaton was released on July 13.  Looks like Sox are on the hook for his $1 Million buyout.

[tray]

If not acquiring Joc Pederson ONLY one bad move by Hahn, OK, but he failed repeatedly at acquiring a LH hitting RFer and he gave the Cubs a startiung second basemen and decent RH reliever for nothing.

 Joc wasn't the only move that Alex Anthopoulos made to fortify the Braves outfield. Compare what Hahn has done,, Mazara, Eaton and  relying on Vaughn to start in the outfield.  I guess some would prefer to blame the Manager for not advancing in the playoffs , but you have to have the right players on the field, and that was Hahn's job.