From Athletic.com headline...

 

 

"We are just 26 days from the start of spring training and 70 from Opening Day, two dates that feel as artificial as ever. 
 

It’s possible we don’t see much of spring training, and as each day passes, the likelihood of missing games soars — something our Ken Rosenthal says will be a stain on MLB commissioner Rob Manfred’s entire career. 
 

Ken articulates something that’s largely been missing from the overall narrative: how lopsided this negotiation really is in favor of owners. There is a tendency for all of us, media included, to both-sides a dispute like this, when it’s far from even.
 

Here’s Ken: 

• “The players actually occupy something of a high ground in this dispute, perhaps even in the view of certain fans who continue to view them as spoiled and overpaid. Many fans historically side with owners, who earn far more money than players, stay in the game longer and make their financial records public only when legally required, as is the case with the publicly traded companies that own the Braves and Blue Jays.”

Manfred, who made his name negotiating collective bargaining agreements, will only face more pressure as the days dwindle. The league took 43 days to offer any proposal after locking the players out. If baseball has a shortened season, fans will turn away. 
 

For now, Manfred must somehow satisfy both large-market and small-market owners without, oh, tanking the entire sport. The players, meanwhile, just want to recoup some of what they lost in the last CBA. 
 

Good luck, commissioner.

For White Sox fans, this lockout came at the worst time. We wanted something dramatic to happen this off-season, but, at the moment, no trades or free agent signings can happen. 2025 is only three years away, and before you know it, it will be 20 years since the last World Series appearance. How time zooms by when you're losing.

On 1/19/2022 at 10:14 AM, Dick Allen said:

Yes, get a little victory on a couple of the important issues, and keep everything else as status quo as possible. They aren't going to get it all at once. If they insist, they will get nothing.

I agree.  It is much easier to keep 30 owners unified than 1200 players.  If the union overlays its hand the end result won't be pretty.

14 hours ago, NWINFan said:

For White Sox fans, this lockout came at the worst time. We wanted something dramatic to happen this off-season, but, at the moment, no trades or free agent signings can happen. 2025 is only three years away, and before you know it, it will be 20 years since the last World Series appearance. How time zooms by when you're losing.

I don't think anyone paying attention was expecting anything that dramatic from the Sox this offseason.  We have a loaded team pretty from top to bottom and we're at the highest opening day payroll in club history and approaching the (current) luxury tax line without additional signings.  There really isn't room for the dramatic. 

I hoped and expected them to sign Conforto.  Still do.  But not sure I call that dramatic.  As much as I love the fit - much like I loved the Yaz fit - he's not a super star by any means. 

Now, if the 2022 season gets shortened, or (god forbid) doesn't happen - now that is happening at the worst time, because the Sox might have the best overall roster in the AL. 

Edited January 21, 20224 yr by ChiSox59

53 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I don't think anyone paying attention was expecting anything that dramatic from the Sox this offseason.  We have a loaded team pretty from top to bottom and we're at the highest opening day payroll in club history and approaching the (current) luxury tax line without additional signings.  There really isn't room for the dramatic. 

I hoped and expected them to sign Conforto.  Still do.  But not sure I call that dramatic.  As much as I love the fit - much like I loved the Yaz fit - he's not a super star by any means. 

Now, if the 2022 season gets shortened, or (god forbid) doesn't happen - now that is happening at the worst time, because the Sox might have the best overall roster in the AL. 

Dramatic or not, the opportunity to do something was taken away. Additionally, starting with the winter meetings, this is usually a good time for fan interest as moves are being made. And the White Sox are good, but I wouldn't call them loaded. 

3 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

Dramatic or not, the opportunity to do something was taken away. Additionally, starting with the winter meetings, this is usually a good time for fan interest as moves are being made. And the White Sox are good, but I wouldn't call them loaded. 

I think league-wide the giant surge of November signings did a lot more for fan interest than the annual 3 month sagas of no one wanting to sign players that we've gotten used to.

57 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I think league-wide the giant surge of November signings did a lot more for fan interest than the annual 3 month sagas of no one wanting to sign players that we've gotten used to.

Yes, but no playoff team signed someone else's  major free agent. It was a game to try to get the union to cave.

Edited January 21, 20224 yr by Dick Allen

1 hour ago, NWINFan said:

Dramatic or not, the opportunity to do something was taken away. Additionally, starting with the winter meetings, this is usually a good time for fan interest as moves are being made. And the White Sox are good, but I wouldn't call them loaded. 

Ehhh, I would. We have above average regulars to superstars at 7/9 positions and really good rotation and bullpen. Add Conforto and it’s the best team in the AL, perhaps by a bit.  

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

Ehhh, I would. We have above average regulars to superstars at 7/9 positions and really good rotation and bullpen. Add Conforto and it’s the best team in the AL, perhaps by a bit.  

Just for grins:
2 - Yaz is average as a catcher (framing taken into account), and well above average at the plate. But how often can he be counted on to catch?
3 - Abreu is likely, in at least some degree, in decline. High GDP and lowering BA indicate as much. The numbers don't show a lot in his field play, but the eyeball test says he improved as a fielder last year. Leadership and attitude keep his rank high - but superstar? Not unless he re-surges at the plate.
4 - We don't have a 4.
6. - TA brings a lot to the table. Great leadership and attitude with first class athletic ability but he's an average MLB SS and just doesn't like walks which drags his OBP down. A very high above-average player but not quite a superstar at this point.
5 - Moncada is an above average fielder that makes some super plays with good OBP at the plate, but hasn't produced as much SLG power as most of us would like to see. Above average.
7 - Eloy is still a question mark. For all the superstar plate potential he has, we don't really know what he is at this point.
8 - I honestly think Robert can put up near Trout numbers at the plate and exceed Trout in the field -------- if he doesn't get hurt. An 'if' that inconveniently gets in the way of superstar status.
9 - We don't have a 9. 
Depth - is at least interesting. Engel and Leury are IMO first class depth guys. i.e. Assuming Engel can play most of a season. Vaughn and Sheets are still question marks - and for all practical purposes still prospects.
I won't go into the 1's in much detail, but will say that we're not as strong in starters as we were last year. Replacing Rodon's first half performance will be challenging. Lynn needs to get in shape. Can Keuch rebound? Can Kopech 'stretch' into a starter role? Lot of uncertainty there. I still think the Sox need another reliever. Tepera is still on the market. 

Too many holes and question marks for me to call this team loaded. Good thing we're in the AL Central.
 

 

Edited January 21, 20224 yr by FoxForce2

1 hour ago, FoxForce2 said:

Just for grins:
2 - Yaz is average as a catcher (framing taken into account), and well above average at the plate. But how often can he be counted on to catch?
3 - Abreu is likely, in at least some degree, in decline. High GDP and lowering BA indicate as much. The numbers don't show a lot in his field play, but the eyeball test says he improved as a fielder last year. Leadership and attitude keep his rank high - but superstar? Not unless he re-surges at the plate.
4 - We don't have a 4.
6. - TA brings a lot to the table. Great leadership and attitude with first class athletic ability but he's an average MLB SS and just doesn't like walks which drags his OBP down. A very high above-average player but not quite a superstar at this point.
5 - Moncada is an above average fielder that makes some super plays with good OBP at the plate, but hasn't produced as much SLG power as most of us would like to see. Above average.
7 - Eloy is still a question mark. For all the superstar plate potential he has, we don't really know what he is at this point.
8 - I honestly think Robert can put up near Trout numbers at the plate and exceed Trout in the field -------- if he doesn't get hurt. An 'if' that inconveniently gets in the way of superstar status.
9 - We don't have a 9. 
Depth - is at least interesting. Engel and Leury are IMO first class depth guys. i.e. Assuming Engel can play most of a season. Vaughn and Sheets are still question marks - and for all practical purposes still prospects.
I won't go into the 1's in much detail, but will say that we're not as strong in starters as we were last year. Replacing Rodon's first half performance will be challenging. Lynn needs to get in shape. Can Keuch rebound? Can Kopech 'stretch' into a starter role? Lot of uncertainty there. I still think the Sox need another reliever. Tepera is still on the market. 

Too many holes and question marks for me to call this team loaded. Good thing we're in the AL Central.
 

 

Eloy is a question mark offensively to you? Did you not watch 2019 or 2020?

16 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Eloy is a question mark offensively to you? Did you not watch 2019 or 2020?

Eloy is absolutely a question mark when he has major issues staying healthy and those injuries affect his offensive performance.

25 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Eloy is a question mark offensively to you? Did you not watch 2019 or 2020?

As long as he is hurting himself in the field, sure.

This whole thing is just so stupid and childish. All of it.

Do we really want the Sox to sign a top tier or even a middle tier free agent? The sport needs those guys to go to the bad teams so they have a chance. It's what the player's want also. 

Force those cheap teams to open their checkbooks and sign some talent away from teams that are contending. 

19 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Do we really want the Sox to sign a top tier or even a middle tier free agent? The sport needs those guys to go to the bad teams so they have a chance. It's what the player's want also. 

Force those cheap teams to open their checkbooks and sign some talent away from teams that are contending. 

Big picture, yes.  But only after the Sox load up and fill all of the holes on the roster ??.  

The bargainers should  be meeting daily and exchanging proposals. Bad faith. 

On 10/30/2021 at 4:07 PM, hi8is said:

What is it you’re expecting next summer?

For openers, an election.  Perhaps a military involvement in either Ukraine or Taiwan, or both.

20 hours ago, pcq said:

The bargainers should  be meeting daily and exchanging proposals. Bad faith. 

yes, 100%. I'm 100% pro players and I feel owners are manipulating shit here, BUT the players union could definitely do more to be more open as well.

 

Anyone else REALLY worried that playoffs are going to expand big time? I am literally depressed just thinking about it. It would, IMO, be the worst possible change. Baseball would fundamentally change for me.

1 hour ago, iWiN4PreP said:

yes, 100%. I'm 100% pro players and I feel owners are manipulating shit here, BUT the players union could definitely do more to be more open as well.

 

Anyone else REALLY worried that playoffs are going to expand big time? I am literally depressed just thinking about it. It would, IMO, be the worst possible change. Baseball would fundamentally change for me.

We will see in the next few weeks how serious the owners are about breaking the union. If they go nuclear, the season will be put on hold for who knows how long.

I am one who is totally against expanding the playoffs. If MLB can't stir interest with the current system, there's something wrong. Cheapening the regular season is not the answer. Getting to the post season should be a reward for a solid regular season. I am not one for letting in an average team in with hopes it will "get hot" in the playoffs. The hell with that crap.

1 hour ago, iWiN4PreP said:

yes, 100%. I'm 100% pro players and I feel owners are manipulating shit here, BUT the players union could definitely do more to be more open as well.

 

Anyone else REALLY worried that playoffs are going to expand big time? I am literally depressed just thinking about it. It would, IMO, be the worst possible change. Baseball would fundamentally change for me.

At this point I just want the season to start on time and for each team to play 162.

15 minutes ago, ScooterMcGee said:

At this point I just want the season to start on time and for each team to play 162.

I agree.  It is obvious from the lack of interest in these forums that baseball is hurting itself.  Neither side will win if the fans tune out.

Playoff expansion would be annoying, however I also hate the play in though I am glad 5 teams get in from each league. Changing that to a 3 game series would be welcome to me.

 

There is a meeting today, correct?

8 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

There is a meeting today, correct?

I have seen several reports of an in-person meeting scheduled for today, yes.