Fire Rick Hahn

[Chicago White Sox]

17 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

He also got a 2 year contract because he’s 34 years old this year and even Hahn doesn’t give 5 year deals to 34 year old pitchers. Giolito will not be 34 this offseason. Quintana wound up starting game 1 of the playoffs for the Cardinals. 

However, if you think you have an example of a pitcher moved with 2 months of control for a much higher price, I’d be happy to know who it was.

I’m more referring to a $13M AAV which is barely above what Mike Clevinger got.  4 win players typically get more than that as free agents, but again, teams were skeptical given his recent track record.

I don’t have a better comp because there aren’t a ton of +3 win pitchers who were rentals who also have been traded recently.  That doesn’t make Jose Quintana in a different trading environment a good comp though.

[caulfield12]

9 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

If Hahn survives this off-season, then there is no hope for the franchise until Jerry dies.  Not trying to be grim here, but no one can look at Rick’s track record and the epic failures of this season and not realize he is not capable of being an even average GM.  The proof is in what we’re paying per win, how overmatched our new manager is, and poor our farm system is.  At this point in his tenure, I can’t name one single strength of his.  Even the “extensions” have come to pass.  Rick Hahn is a straight up clown and his level of incompetence almost makes the crazy part of me wonder if he’s a chaos agent trying to help the Cubs win Chicago because he is literally that bad at his job.  f***, at this point Chris Get sounds like an upgrade and he oversees a bottom five farm system.  To say this franchise has hit rock bottom under Rick Hahn is an understatement.  You know it’s bad when you miss the “mired in mediocrity” days.  Unfortunately since then Rick has rebuilt this team in his own image and that is plain shitty.

May the baseball gods please take mercy our poor souls and rid the franchise of the abomination that is Richard Hahn.

Chris Get sounds like a much more formidable exec.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’m more referring to a $13M AAV which is barely above what Mike Clevinger got.  4 win players typically get more than that as free agents, but again, teams were skeptical given his recent track record.

I don’t have a better comp because there aren’t a ton of +3 win pitchers who were rentals who also have been traded recently.  That doesn’t make Jose Quintana in a different trading environment a good comp though.

But out of recent years it’s literally the best comp we have because most struggling teams don’t put themselves in the same weak situation as the White Sox by holding guys to this point. They avoid this, because they know the value of a player drops a ton when they have only 2 months of control remaining.

[Kyyle23]

5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

If Hahn survives this off-season, then there is no hope for the franchise until Jerry dies.  Not trying to be grim here, but no one can look at Rick’s track record and the epic failures of this season and not realize he is not capable of being an even average GM.  The proof is in what we’re paying per win, how overmatched our new manager is, and poor our farm system is.  At this point in his tenure, I can’t name one single strength of his.  Even the “extensions” have come to pass.  Rick Hahn is a straight up clown and his level of incompetence almost makes the crazy part of me wonder if he’s a chaos agent trying to help the Cubs win Chicago because he is literally that bad at his job.  f***, at this point Chris Get sounds like an upgrade and he oversees a bottom five farm system.  To say this franchise has hit rock bottom under Rick Hahn is an understatement.  You know it’s bad when you miss the “mired in mediocrity” days.  Unfortunately since then Rick has rebuilt this team in his own image and that is plain shitty.

May the baseball gods please take mercy our poor souls and rid the franchise of the abomination that is Richard Hahn.

Hahn isn’t the key here.  We know it.  Nobody wants to wish death on someone but that’s the way out because he doesn’t want to sell

[Kyyle23]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Chris Get sounds like a much more formidable exec.

Based on what.  The guy has been here long enough for us to see that the same things are happening.  We can all root on the deck chair rearranging but it doesn’t matter 

[Tony]

17 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Hahn isn’t the key here.  We know it.  Nobody wants to wish death on someone but that’s the way out because he doesn’t want to sell

I believe there are individuals that could succeed as the GM under Jerry, but as we all know, those individuals won’t be hired. 

[Balta1701]

5 minutes ago, Tony said:

I believe there are individuals that could succeed as the GM under Jerry, but as we all know, those individuals won’t be hired. 

Do we think that Jerry has gotten worse with his tendencies over the last 15 years? Because Jerry also did hire KW and although he wasn’t the best GM in the league, he was good enough to accomplish some things. It is actually quite remarkable how much worse things got as soon as Hahn took over in 2013.

[bmags]

Couldn't help but look at this roster last night and just see zero difference between it and 2019. Some good players that are exciting surrounded by AAAA or worse, and veterans on their last stop before (non voluntary) retirement. That's what happens when you fill up a $180 mill payroll with a bunch of long term bullpen contracts.

[Johno]

Chris Getz is not the answer if Hahn is fired. Look at their current farm system, it’s a mess.   basically no players get better they either stay stagnant or they get worse.   Cespedes is a classic example of a player who gets worse every year!!

[Kyyle23]

24 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Do we think that Jerry has gotten worse with his tendencies over the last 15 years? Because Jerry also did hire KW and although he wasn’t the best GM in the league, he was good enough to accomplish some things. It is actually quite remarkable how much worse things got as soon as Hahn took over in 2013.

I’m done saying there is a hard line between them, there is no line.  They both need to go.  KW was doing some crazy ass s%*# at the end and bumped himself to the top to avoid that scrutiny going forward. Remember how fucking fast they fell after 2005?  That was on him thinking Andy Sisco was some sort of savior 

[Kyyle23]

2 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

When does the accountability commence?

As always, the beatings will continue until morale improves 

[Rowand44]

9 hours ago, GreenSox said:

I'm past the anger at the lazy, self-serving and incompetent management; now it just makes me sad.

I'm past the anger and sadness at this point, I just don't care which is so much fuckin worse.

[The Kids Can Play]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Chris Get sounds like a much more formidable exec.

I hope that is some form of sarcasm and humor.

Chris Getz official title is Assistant GM/Player Development Director. This is his 7th year for Getz in overseeing the White Sox minor league operations and player development system. 

The Sox farm system was 29th in 2022 and is currently 26th ranked this season. I'm quite confident it will still be bottom end ranked in 2024.

The pitching talent and depth in AA and AAA is a complete and utter trainwreck. Charlotte is 20th of 20 teams in ERA at 6.28 and Birmingham is 7th of 8 teams in ERA 5.26. 

The hitting at both levels is also really bad. The Birmingham slash line is: .228/.334/.365/.689 which is ranked 8/8/7/8. Plus the Barons are last in runs scored per game at 4.3. Charlotte slash line is: .258/.341/.415/.756 which is 14/18/16/17 in rankings along with 18th in runs scored at 4.87 per game. 

As the assistant to Rick Hahn and knowing as all of us have agreed on....Hahn has done a horrible job. Based on that fact, we can also assume Getz did not receive any positive GM mentoring or knowledge from his boss to be a future successful GM. Furthermore when you consider Getz was in charge of the development of the White Sox farm system for player development over the last seven years, which was during the rebuild and WS contention years, as well as knowing how terrible our farm system currently is, then why in the world would Getz be a formidable executive hire? 

The only way we will ever be a consistent playoff winning team, is when the Sox finally go to the outside and find their next GM executive from a one of the successful baseball organizations. Sadly that isn't happening until Jerry passes away and the Sox have new ownership. 

Edited July 7, 2023 by The Kids Can Play

[Balta1701]

19 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I’m done saying there is a hard line between them, there is no line.  They both need to go.  KW was doing some crazy ass s%*# at the end and bumped himself to the top to avoid that scrutiny going forward. Remember how fucking fast they fell after 2005?  That was on him thinking Andy Sisco was some sort of savior 

They fell off extremely fast after 2005 because of Kenny expecting his starting rotation to hold together, but they did not. But even after this, we had Kenny taking big gambles to try to get better. Danks and Floyd into the rotation - flopped at first then turned really good. Ramirez and Quentin - keyed a playoff race. Dunn, Peavy, and Rios - terrible team in 2011, changed coaches and surprisingly good in 2012.

Then we went from gambles that sometimes worked and sometimes didn’t to super cheap moves that never worked. “Assume everything else will stay the same, no one will get old, have the manager coach guys less hard, and add Conor Gillespie and Jeff Keppinger, now that’s the path to the 2013 playoffs.”

Get rid of both now, but don’t undersell how awful Rick Hahn specifically has been. 

[bmags]

Getz sucks we now only have shirley as a minor hope.

Sigh, it'll be KW jr.

[Kyyle23]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

They fell off extremely fast after 2005 because of Kenny expecting his starting rotation to hold together, but they did not. But even after this, we had Kenny taking big gambles to try to get better. Danks and Floyd into the rotation - flopped at first then turned really good. Ramirez and Quentin - keyed a playoff race. Dunn, Peavy, and Rios - terrible team in 2011, changed coaches and surprisingly good in 2012.

Then we went from gambles that sometimes worked and sometimes didn’t to super cheap moves that never worked. “Assume everything else will stay the same, no one will get old, have the manager coach guys less hard, and add Conor Gillespie and Jeff Keppinger, now that’s the path to the 2013 playoffs.”

Get rid of both now, but don’t undersell how awful Rick Hahn specifically has been. 

All you are doing is reinforcing my point that KW made incredibly bad short sighted moves frequently that did not work out.  There is no difference now.  They make small gambles in free agency now because they don’t have s%*# in the farm system to deal.  So we see a high priced bullpen that can’t shut down games.  Back in KWs time we were trading for alomar and Everett multiple times.  Floyd and Danks aren’t feathers in his cap, they are flashes in the pan that didn’t get matter or burnt out as soon as the ink dried 

[Kyyle23]

And f*** Carlos Quentin too.  That was some bullshit 

[bmags]

 Danks was a good trade, that kind of self-scouting of org talent is inconceivable under Hahn.

But KW was definitely a believer in the "great man" era of baseball orgs where he thought himself like single handedly finding players and trading for friends and treating it like a fantasy team. Remarkable compared to Hahn who fancied himself smart because he grew up in winnetka around rich parents coddling him and tried to make an org approach to please papa but is miserable at it because he's a talentless hack.

[bmags]

Funny how memory works. I remember Roberto Alomar as somewhat effective ( he was miserable) and Manny Ramirez as miserable (he was somewhat effective).

 

[bmags]

Guy walked 16 times in 100 PAs despite zero threat of power at that point. He could certainly pick a walk man.

[Kyyle23]

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

Funny how memory works. I remember Roberto Alomar as somewhat effective ( he was miserable) and Manny Ramirez as miserable (he was somewhat effective).

 

Robbie was checked out.  There was some weird off-season rumor stuff if I remember right 

[Kyyle23]

1 hour ago, Tony said:

I believe there are individuals that could succeed as the GM under Jerry, but as we all know, those individuals won’t be hired. 

Lightning in a bottle is always possible I guess, but it’s hard for me to look at the lack of commitment to the continued and future health of this organization and think that some guy could actually work with this successfully

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

Do we think that Jerry has gotten worse with his tendencies over the last 15 years? Because Jerry also did hire KW and although he wasn’t the best GM in the league, he was good enough to accomplish some things. It is actually quite remarkable how much worse things got as soon as Hahn took over in 2013.

Kenny Williams has baseball knowledge, he at times had decent moves plus a run of good luck in 2004/2005.

1 hour ago, bmags said:

Couldn't help but look at this roster last night and just see zero difference between it and 2019. Some good players that are exciting surrounded by AAAA or worse, and veterans on their last stop before (non voluntary) retirement. That's what happens when you fill up a $180 mill payroll with a bunch of long term bullpen contracts.

It's highly unlikely the Sox will finish with a better record or better fWAR in 2023 vs. 2019. Any improvement by a return of Yoan, Liam and or Crochet will likely be offset by trade losses.

Team Winning Percentage: 2023 YTD .428 vs. 2019 .427,

Team Position Player fWAR: 2023 4.6 vs. 2019 11.3,

Team Pitching fWAR: 2023 6.1 vs. 2019 13.2,

[bmags]

I think Jerry really bailed caring about stuff when 2011 fizzled plus the 2012(?) CBA largely creating a framework that fit his tendencies. There was nothing left to fight for anymore.

[LittleHurtCG]

Hahn is going nowhere. The dreadful thing is that this thread will still be active 4 years from now. Hoping for change within the White Sox organization is like beating your head against the wall.