Old Sock Drawer, ex Sox player discussion

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Well, that would have been a huge bargain even if he only put up 100-120 innings because he's currently on pace for a 6+ fWAR.

All he needed was 2-2.25 to be considered "earning his pay" based on $8-9 million for FA f/WAR standards.

Wouldn't help in the playoffs if he only threw 100-120 innings. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by ptatc

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

3 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Yeah, I'd be willing to risk a 60% insured QO to Rodon that he could pitch in enough games and perform better than Vince Velasquez could over an entire healthy season for VV.

That difference ALONE, even if Rodon were to go down injured by years' end, could mean the difference between playing a series in Houston, Tampa, or Toronto, and facing those teams with HFA.

But, yay! We've got a bullpen, and an injured 34 year old LFer in RF.

I’m confident the Sox finish top 2 in the AL this regular season. Doesn’t mean anything, though, if they do nothing in the playoffs again. The playoffs are everything at this point in the rebuild.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

4 innings, 7 k's, 2 hits, no runs so far for Carlos.

[wegner]

4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

4 innings, 7 k's, 2 hits, no runs so far for Carlos.

And that would have him in a scoreless tie if he was still here.  Pitching wasn't our problem today.....well besides Keuchel 😁

[Chick Mercedes]

9 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

4 innings, 7 k's, 2 hits, no runs so far for Carlos.

We’ll just wait for his arm to fall off, and preferably keep trotting Kuechel and players to be named later out there.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Chick Mercedes

[Flash Tizzle]

1 minute ago, wegner said:

And that would have him in a scoreless tie if he was still here.  Pitching wasn't our problem today.....well besides Keuchel 😁

So……..it was a pitching problem, then. 

[caulfield12]

5/3/0/2/8

95 pitches through 5 and likely pulled.

Seems his velocity was down by 2-3 MPH...but increased once again as the game went on and was mostly 94-96, touching 97.

New York's a bit cooler, I'm guessing.  Another possibility is he's hitting his "dead arm" period coming out of a shortened spring training.

 

Not bad for the "bad" Rodon without his best stuff to completely shut down the best team in baseball, at least record-wise.

Seems that's the exact kind of thing an "ace" is supposed to do, especially after two losses in the DH yesterday.

[Good Guys]

How many seasons did the Sox wait on Rodon?  And when he finally starts to put it together they won't resign him.  Not even a qualifying offer.  But they give Kimbrel $16 million.  

When healthy, Rodon was their best pitcher last year and maybe their best player.  We'll see where is this year come playoff time?  But knowing the Sox he'll probably pitch like this all year.  I know it's easy to second guess the front office but I found these moves particularly frustrating.  Sorry for the rant.  

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 minutes ago, Good Guys said:

How many seasons did the Sox wait on Rodon?  And when he finally starts to put it together they won't resign him.  Not even a qualifying offer.  But they give Kimbrel $16 million.  

When healthy, Rodon was their best pitcher last year and maybe their best player.  We'll see where is this year come playoff time?  But knowing the Sox he'll probably pitch like this all year.  I know it's easy to second guess the front office but I found these moves particularly frustrating.  Sorry for the rant.  

It's ok I've been ranting since they didn't extend the QO and ranted some more when the Giants signed him and continue to rant when he has a 1.06 ERA through 3 starts And I'll continue to rant until(if) he has arm troubles. Then everyone can rant at me !

[CentralChamps21]

58 minutes ago, Good Guys said:

How many seasons did the Sox wait on Rodon?  And when he finally starts to put it together they won't resign him.  Not even a qualifying offer.  But they give Kimbrel $16 million.  

When healthy, Rodon was their best pitcher last year and maybe their best player.  We'll see where is this year come playoff time?  But knowing the Sox he'll probably pitch like this all year.  I know it's easy to second guess the front office but I found these moves particularly frustrating.  Sorry for the rant.  

They didn't give Kimbrel $16 million.

[caulfield12]

40 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

They didn't give Kimbrel $16 million.

No, but that "allocated" $16 million was used as an excuse for not making any significant pitching moves...other than Velasquez's $3 million.

There were 15-20 legit options out there, even after Rodon.   We watched as they all disappeared from the board one by one.

 

In the end, Pollock might end up having a solid year (expecting another 3 fWAR is too much with his fragile health at age 34)...but I have a feeling if I'm still alive another twenty years from now that the hiring of TLR and the Kimbrel trade will end up being two of the key factors in the overall retrospective analysis of where things started to go south with the rebuild and contention window.

As it stands, Abreu, Keuchel, Grandal and Lynn might all be showing signs of aging right when we need their 2020-21 versions the most.

 

 

 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

5/3/0/2/8

95 pitches through 5 and likely pulled.

Seems his velocity was down by 2-3 MPH...but increased once again as the game went on and was mostly 94-96, touching 97.

New York's a bit cooler, I'm guessing.  Another possibility is he's hitting his "dead arm" period coming out of a shortened spring training.

 

Not bad for the "bad" Rodon without his best stuff to completely shut down the best team in baseball, at least record-wise.

Seems that's the exact kind of thing an "ace" is supposed to do, especially after two losses in the DH yesterday.

So much for the Giants not overusing him early in the season like the Sox did last year. Rodon probably leading MLB in pitches thrown thru 3 starts.

Edited April 21, 2022 by JUSTgottaBELIEVE

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It's ok I've been ranting since they didn't extend the QO and ranted some more when the Giants signed him and continue to rant when he has a 1.06 ERA through 3 starts And I'll continue to rant until(if) he has arm troubles. Then everyone can rant at me !

Let’s not forget he had a 0.72 ERA in April for the Sox last season. As I’ve said before with Rodon, it’s not what you do for me in April, it’s what you do for me late in the season and playoffs. Giants not exactly easing him in either. Already 274 pitches in 3 games after a shortened spring training.  Let’s see where he’s at in another 5 months.

[Balta1701]

21 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

So much for the Giants not overusing him early in the season like the Sox did last year. Rodon probably leading MLB in pitches thrown thru 3 starts.

He’s at highest 4th in pitches thrown. (Might be some other guys who pitched today).

[ShoeLessRob]

Rick Hahn every time CR pitches.

[Tony]

35 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Let’s not forget he had a 0.72 ERA in April for the Sox last season. As I’ve said before with Rodon, it’s not what you do for me in April, it’s what you do for me late in the season and playoffs. Giants not exactly easing him in either. Already 274 pitches in 3 games after a shortened spring training.  Let’s see where he’s at in another 5 months.

Let’s say the Sox signed Rodon to the same deal the Giants did.

What would it have prevented the Sox from doing this offseason? 

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, Tony said:

Let’s say the Sox signed Rodon to the same deal the Giants did.

What would it have prevented the Sox from doing this offseason? 

Kelly, Harrison, Velasquez, and Cueto.

[Tony]

9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Kelly, Harrison, Velasquez, and Cueto.

The first three I agree with, Cueto signed a minor league deal and if Lynn and Gio still go down, I think they probably sign him.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, Tony said:

The first three I agree with, Cueto signed a minor league deal and if Lynn and Gio still go down, I think they probably sign him.

At the very least, those add up to about the same money.

[Two-Gun Pete]

On 4/19/2022 at 6:17 PM, ptatc said:

But then the Sox won't have him for the playoffs. I really don't think the Sox need him for the regular season. A rotation of Giolito, Lynn, Cease, Kopech, Keuchal, Velasquez and Lopez is enty for the regular season.

I would have preferred another 4-5 type starter to get through the season but spending even 18 mil on Rodon was a luxury they couldn't afford.

Couple things:

1. Rodon, even if he only were to pitch ~100-140 IP, would have helped in the postseason. This is because the difference between 100-140 IP of Rodon, and whatever VV gives before he's DFA'ed is a HOME series vs Houston/TB/TOR, instead of another road curb-stomping. Because Vince Velasquez sucks at baseball, and Rodon is, like, GOOD at baseball.

2. Holding onto an obese $16MM option on Kimbrel prevented any action on anything else WRT the rotation. An insured ~$18-20MM contract for 100-140 IP of Rodon was a damn necessity for this roster, as I knew in the offseason, and you've discovered these last 3 games.

On 4/19/2022 at 7:25 PM, caulfield12 said:

Well, that would have been a huge bargain even if he only put up 100-120 innings because he's currently on pace for a 6+ fWAR.

All he needed was 2-2.25 to be considered "earning his pay" based on $8-9 million for FA f/WAR standards.

Holy fucking shit, THIS. Fucking this. Rick Hahn, go fucking figure out what the cost of 1 WAR is in FA, BEFORE you make stoopid decisions. 

If you don't know what things cost, how can you be an informed consumer? And if, as a MLB executive, you can't figure out what one WAR costs, you're a fucking moron.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Two-Gun Pete

[Two-Gun Pete]

27 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Kelly, Harrison, Velasquez, and Cueto.

Or maybe they could have gone: Yimi Garcia instead of Cripple Kelly, saving $3MM, and signed a warm MiLB body instead of Velasquez.

If they wanted "High Energy" Negative WAR, they could have still signed him and Cueto.

But, as I said all offseason, I would have gone Suzuki ($8MM this year) instead of Pollock (at $14.5MM per spotrac) as well.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Two-Gun Pete

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

45 minutes ago, Tony said:

Let’s say the Sox signed Rodon to the same deal the Giants did.

What would it have prevented the Sox from doing this offseason? 

For this season, pretty much what Balta said. For next season, who knows. Kelly eats up about $8.5M of the ~$20M it would cost for Rodon next year.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

44 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Kelly, Harrison, Velasquez, and Cueto.

Or put another way, Gravemen and Kelly are almost equal to one Rodon both in annual salary and total salary. A little cheaper for those two per season than Rodon so maybe you add Velazquez to this season as well.

Kopech replaced Rodon in the rotation so they had a void in the bullpen since Kopech vacated his spot to join the rotation. Graveman fills that Kopech bullpen role. Only need 4 starters in the playoffs.

Are the Sox better off with Lynn, Gio, Cease, Rodon in the rotation and Kopech and ? in the pen like last season come playoff time? Or Lynn, Gio, Cease, Kopech in the rotation and Gravemen and Kelly in the pen? I’m not sure but I’d probably take the latter personally.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

He’s at highest 4th in pitches thrown. (Might be some other guys who pitched today).

Yikes. Wonder if he holds up into this fall putting in that type of workload (if it continues). We’ll see!

[Tony]

41 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Or put another way, Gravemen and Kelly are almost equal to one Rodon both in annual salary and total salary. A little cheaper for those two per season than Rodon so maybe you add Velazquez to this season as well.

Kopech replaced Rodon in the rotation so they had a void in the bullpen since Kopech vacated his spot to join the rotation. Graveman fills that Kopech bullpen role. Only need 4 starters in the playoffs.

Are the Sox better off with Lynn, Gio, Cease, Rodon in the rotation and Kopech and ? in the pen like last season come playoff time? Or Lynn, Gio, Cease, Kopech in the rotation and Gravemen and Kelly in the pen? I’m not sure but I’d probably take the latter personally.

But those of course aren’t the only options. What about not giving Leury Garcia 15 million dollars? That’s always an option…you know, not to do that. 
 

It’s amazing the water some will carry for this organization. Let’s say Rodon makes the All-Star game this year, the second year in a row. This would be after putting up a 5 WAR season for the Sox in 2021, and doing it in his late 20’s mind you. They let him walk away and got NOTHING in return. Zero. Meanwhile, it’s April 21st and there is serious discussion taking place about Tanner Banks having a spot in this rotation, and the Sox have already had starts from Vince Velazquez and Jimmy Lambert.

Come on…