Somebody better be held accountable for this disaster of a season. 

32nd game this season the Sox lost to a team with a losing record.

And it is the 71st time in 145 games they have scored three runs or less.

1 minute ago, GreenSox said:

Well....now that you mention it.....

The Chicago "dumbest fucking team in baseball" White Sox

3 minutes ago, fathom said:

I just have a feeling Giolito gets traded.  Same with Vaughn.

I don't see the point of trading Vaughn for minimal salary relief / flexibility. Couple a few of your wanted veterans (Anderson, Liam, Giolito, Eloy, Lynn) with bad contracts (Moncada, Grandal, Pollock, Leury, Kelly, Diekman).

Dodgers lose $134M in payroll next year if they let these free agents walk (Price $32M, T. Turner $21M, J. Turner $18M, C. Bellinger $17M, Kershaw $17M, Kimbrel $16M and Muncy $13M).

Think they would want Anderson for a year if they aren't signing Trea Turner, Liam replaces Kimbrel. They could DFA or use as bench / backend bullpen players a subset of Grandal, Pollock, Leury, Kelly, Diekman. They might also take Moncada, his $42M for two years is nothing to them. Wouldn't want Hahn making the deal, because he would f*** it up yet again, but a solid TB/CLE type GM might make a great trade with the Dodgers willing to take on big money.

1 minute ago, T R U said:

Somebody better be held accountable for this disaster of a season. 

Oh they will.  LaRussa will step down for health reasons,  Menechino won't be back, and Hahn will wax blame and excuses to the writers and bloggers.  Problem solved.

30 minutes ago, chw42 said:

Better hope Oscar Colas is the s%*#, Yoan regains his talent again, Giolito gets his velocity back, and Eloy stays healthy. Cause next year is probably gonna suck if those guys don't get right. 

I think the list is probably longer, but I wouldn't feel very comfortable with $20 on that parlay

7 minutes ago, flavum said:

I’m not going to deny that the roster construction of this team is awful. But if they re-sign 36 yr old Jose Abreu over trading 25 yr old Andrew Vaughn, they are the dumbest fucking team in baseball. Eloy needs to DH. Vaughn needs to play first base. That part isn’t difficult to figure out. The rest, I’ll leave it up to the “experts”.

Retaining Elvis and Pollock would make this an old team.  The old guys in the team don't get sore legs as often as Vaughn. That is my only knock against him.   Dumb started long ago in drafting.

19 minutes ago, wegner said:

Vaughn has value.....does Giolito?

White Sox MLB Trade Values:

Keep:

1. Robert $74M
2. Cease $65M
3. Montgomery $34M
4. Vaughn $25M
5. Kopech $18M
6. Crochet $17M
7. Colas $16M
8. Lambert $12M
9. Ramos $10M

Short Term Players with Positive Trade Values:

1. Anderson $46M (This one very inflated IMO)
2. Hendriks $18M
3. Giolito $13M

Conundrum - I would trade for value, would keep if trade value is minimal: Eloy $11M

Negative Player Value:

1. Moncada Negative $12M
2. Grandal Negative $10M
3. Leury Negative $7M
4. Kelly Negative $6M
5. Diekman Negative $5M
6. Pollock Negative $4M (soon to be $5M or $6M with more plate appearances)

4 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

Retaining Elvis and Pollock would make this an old team.  The old guys in the team don't get sore legs as often as Vaughn. That is my only knock against him.   Dumb started long ago in drafting.

International free agents. The dregs

19 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

I don't see the point of trading Vaughn for minimal salary relief / flexibility. Couple a few of your wanted veterans (Anderson, Liam, Giolito, Eloy, Lynn) with bad contracts (Moncada, Grandal, Pollock, Leury, Kelly, Diekman).

Dodgers lose $134M in payroll next year if they let these free agents walk (Price $32M, T. Turner $21M, J. Turner $18M, C. Bellinger $17M, Kershaw $17M, Kimbrel $16M and Muncy $13M).

Think they would want Anderson for a year if they aren't signing Trea Turner, Liam replaces Kimbrel. They could DFA or use as bench / backend bullpen players a subset of Grandal, Pollock, Leury, Kelly, Diekman. They might also take Moncada, his $42M for two years is nothing to them. Wouldn't want Hahn making the deal, because he would f*** it up yet again, but a solid TB/CLE type GM might make a great trade with the Dodgers willing to take on big money.

Anymore I could care less about trades, whomever they are. They tried to tear it down already with trades and look where we are. The problem is when you trade to a rebuild you are stuck with grabbing whatever shiny packages are out there and trying to somehow make them work together.

How about this? How about building a damn organization that functions with some sort of coherent philosophy and developmental plan? That doesn’t happen at a trade deadline. It takes a commitment and time, and at least some degree of intelligence.. They haven’t done that and this team from the owner down is quite simply ugly - and an insult.

Edited September 17, 20223 yr by SpringfieldFan

1 minute ago, SpringfieldFan said:

Anymore I could care less about trades, whomever they are. They tried to tear it down already with trades and look where we are. The problem is when you trade to a rebuild you are stuck with grabbing whatever shiny packages are out there and trying to somehow make them work together.

How about this? How about building a damn organization that functions with some sort of coherent philosophy and developmental plan? That doesn’t happen at a trade deadline. It takes a commitment and time, and at least some degree of intelligence.. They haven’t done that and this team from the GM down is quite simply ugly - and an insult.

I noted trades for the two smart (of the three) directions the Sox can take this offseason. If they get a smart external GM, they could either:

1, Open up some salary flexibility with a savvy Dodgers trade if they use the flexibility to fill their holes and get a more athletic team (and 1-2 quality LH Bats).

2, Coupled with the nine players I listed as keep, and more they can acquired via trade and drafts the next few years, reset for a solid actual sustainable multi-championship window for 2025-2030 (and hopefully beyond). This also requires a total revamp of player development, analytics, scouting, so a tear down on the fly to be credibly ready in 3-4 years for actual WS appearances, not for AL Central titles and early exits. Larry Himes was the only GM under Jerry's tenure who built this solid of a core, but Jerry spited the team and fans prioritizing killing the Players Union over everything else.

What will likely happen is 3. - Finger pointing / scapegoating, making changes but none meaningful or impactful in terms of being a top team during the remaining two years with this core.

34 minutes ago, wegner said:

Ugghh then who's 5....a veteran reclamation project?

Crochet won't be ready.

Honestly you trade Giolito and both 4 and 5 are reclamation projects.

1 hour ago, elrockinMT said:

It ain’t over yet

I think if the White Sox sweep Cleveland they hold the tiebreaker.  So that's an absolute must and the team needs to sign Tim Raines, Lance Johnson, Carlton Fisk, Jack McDowell, Lamar Hoyt, Bo Jackson & Frank Thomas for me to really have any confidence.

At least Y0for5 Mancrappy and Yasmanhesucks get their full game checks $$

1st out the door at dreadful season’s end…regardless of contract $$$….Pollock, Harrison, Grandal..sad to see his aging game after game…Leury…and uh..well why not…Giolito…just to start…a real door jamb as to 1st out….

9 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

I don't see the point of trading Vaughn for minimal salary relief / flexibility. Couple a few of your wanted veterans (Anderson, Liam, Giolito, Eloy, Lynn) with bad contracts (Moncada, Grandal, Pollock, Leury, Kelly, Diekman).

Dodgers lose $134M in payroll next year if they let these free agents walk (Price $32M, T. Turner $21M, J. Turner $18M, C. Bellinger $17M, Kershaw $17M, Kimbrel $16M and Muncy $13M).

Think they would want Anderson for a year if they aren't signing Trea Turner, Liam replaces Kimbrel. They could DFA or use as bench / backend bullpen players a subset of Grandal, Pollock, Leury, Kelly, Diekman. They might also take Moncada, his $42M for two years is nothing to them. Wouldn't want Hahn making the deal, because he would f*** it up yet again, but a solid TB/CLE type GM might make a great trade with the Dodgers willing to take on big money.

I thought he signed a new deal.

9 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Negative Player Value:

1. Moncada Negative $12M
2. Grandal Negative $10M
3. Leury Negative $7M
4. Kelly Negative $6M
5. Diekman Negative $5M
6. Pollock Negative $4M (soon to be $5M or $6M with more plate appearances)

And here is why the Sox didn't improve this season. 
3, 4, 5 and 6 were all Front office moves since last season and all are disasters (well, I guess Diekman's been okay).  And the other move was Harrison who's not good either.
They got over-ambitious with Moncada, but most of their extensions of young players have worked out, so that's forgivable.  Grandal is aging - but he gave the Sox some good play.

I agree with the keep list; I'd trade the 2nd list, provided value is received.  As for Andrus, fine as a bridge to Montgomery, but only if Anderson is traded or, say, moves to left field.
 

54 minutes ago, FrontierDayz said:

1st out the door at dreadful season’s end…regardless of contract $$$….Pollock, Harrison, Grandal..sad to see his aging game after game…Leury…and uh..well why not…Giolito…just to start…a real door jamb as to 1st out….

Harrison maybe, but don’t hold your breath for the rest.  They all deserve to go, but with limited payroll flexibility, I don’t foresee them eating a lot of dead money only to create need to spend more for replacements.  We are probably looking at a similar roster next season, maxed out in more ways than one. 

48 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

And here is why the Sox didn't improve this season. 
3, 4, 5 and 6 were all Front office moves since last season and all are disasters (well, I guess Diekman's been okay).  And the other move was Harrison who's not good either.
They got over-ambitious with Moncada, but most of their extensions of young players have worked out, so that's forgivable.  Grandal is aging - but he gave the Sox some good play.

I agree with the keep list; I'd trade the 2nd list, provided value is received.  As for Andrus, fine as a bridge to Montgomery, but only if Anderson is traded or, say, moves to left field.
 

Exactly which of their extensions have worked out? Anderson is fine, but Eloy, Robert, and Moncada? Right now I would seriously be talking about options being declined on all of them.

9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Exactly which of their extensions have worked out? Anderson is fine, but Eloy, Robert, and Moncada? Right now I would seriously be talking about options being declined on all of them.

 Moncada's hadn't worked out and was too high to begin with ("over ambitious").  Eloy and Robert aren't debilitating $ and aren't albatrosses; Eloy's a good hitter and Robert's been hurt this year.  And then Sale, Quintana, Eaton.

Edited September 17, 20223 yr by GreenSox

5 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

I pretty clearly said that Moncada's hadn't worked out.  Eloy and Robert aren't debilitating $ and aren't albatrosses; Eloy's a good hitter and Robert's been hurt this year.  And then Sale, Quintana, Eaton.

They’re not debilitating yet. If Eloy or Robert misses 120 games next year and gets paid $10 million for it, that’s getting there.

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

They’re not debilitating yet. If Eloy or Robert misses 120 games next year and gets paid $10 million for it, that’s getting there.

When you pay $9 Mill to Joe Kelly and $16 mill to Pollock, and consistently have a bottom tier farm and development system, I can't get worked up about it. 

5 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

When you pay $9 Mill to Joe Kelly and $16 mill to Pollock, and consistently have a bottom tier farm and development system, I can't get worked up about it. 

If you’re getting worked up about Moncada for $13 million this year, then those guys could readily be on the list next year.

9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If you’re getting worked up about Moncada for $13 million this year, then those guys could readily be on the list next year.

I'm worked up about Moncada because his contract is significantly worse (as is his play):   he's c. $42 million guaranteed for the next 2 seasons.
Eloy and Robert top out at around $15  mill per season.  
How did Moncada get that kind of deal compared to the 2 others>
Plus these guys are all in their 20s.  I'm expecting that Moncada's crash is the exception not the rule. Or maybe I'm hoping. 

41 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

When you pay $9 Mill to Joe Kelly and $16 mill to Pollock, and consistently have a bottom tier farm and development system, I can't get worked up about it. 

Well, here's to hoping Project Birmingham pans out.