20 minutes ago, bmags said:

Many yankee fans weren’t even sure they were going to pick up the option before he got hot in September.

Read an article in the pinstripe alley blog they thought he was out

Yah, I’m not a big Gleyber guy. He’s sort of more of what we have. RHH, not great defensively. Doesn’t hit RHP that well. Obviously a huge upgrade on Romy/Sosa, but it also effectively blocks Sosa until 2025. Id probably do the swap for Crochet just because Sox have horribly managed him and he’ll probably never start for the Sox. But it’s not a deal I’d be overly excited about, tbh. 

12 minutes ago, bmags said:

Many yankee fans weren’t even sure they were going to pick up the option before he got hot in September.

Read an article in the pinstripe alley blog they thought he was out

Merrifield also had a hot September finished with 1.5 fWar, Torres 2.7, Andrus 3.5. Kemp 1.5, Escobar 2.3.

Andrus is the only one that would only cost money. The rest have higher salaries than Andrus is likely to receive except Kemp and all would also cost a player.

The Sox are going to sit tight for a while on 2nd base and see if anyone worthwhile gets released which isn't likely.

I’m intrigued by Gleyber. This team needs pop. He’s very good when he’s right. I’m not worried about the defense if it’s at 2B. 

Gleyber is exactly what this team needs in every aspect except he’s RHH not a LHH. If it takes Crochet you do that deal 10 times out of 10 

34 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Not sound defensively. Average player.  Wouldn't surprise me if they'd trade him for young pitching - that's what good teams do.   

9 DRS and 4.8 UZR/150 last year at 2B is pretty good.  It’s very clear he’s not a SS and moving him between the two spots hurt him the past.  Also, a 115 wRC+ with 24 HRs is well above average for a 2B.  Your evaluation of Torres seems quite outdated.

48 minutes ago, ShoeLessRob said:

Bruce Levine doesn’t know s%*#. 

So what’s Bruce’s Soxtalk burner??

18 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Yah, I’m not a big Gleyber guy. He’s sort of more of what we have. RHH, not great defensively. Doesn’t hit RHP that well. Obviously a huge upgrade on Romy/Sosa, but it also effectively blocks Sosa until 2025. Id probably do the swap for Crochet just because Sox have horribly managed him and he’ll probably never start for the Sox. But it’s not a deal I’d be overly excited about, tbh. 

I'm with you. Yes it makes the team better in 2023, but I could easily see Sosa or Popeye being able to put up Gleyber-like numbers by 2024, and they would be on rookie deals. I'd prefer a left-handed option that the Sox could easily move on from if it looks like one of the in-house guys is a long-term solution.

The Yanks are also high on 2 minor leaguers who they see as their starting SS and 2B so Gleyber would be a perfect option for the Sox to inquire on. This won’t happen because it’s an obvious fit and the Sox cry poor but one can wish 

26 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Yah, I’m not a big Gleyber guy. He’s sort of more of what we have. RHH, not great defensively. Doesn’t hit RHP that well. Obviously a huge upgrade on Romy/Sosa, but it also effectively blocks Sosa until 2025. Id probably do the swap for Crochet just because Sox have horribly managed him and he’ll probably never start for the Sox. But it’s not a deal I’d be overly excited about, tbh. 

He’s not really more of what we have because he had a mid year and hit 25 home runs which would have been comfortably the team leader for us, and it would have been from the spot that’s produced like 10 home runs in the last 3 years combined.

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

Yah, I’m not a big Gleyber guy. He’s sort of more of what we have. RHH, not great defensively. Doesn’t hit RHP that well. Obviously a huge upgrade on Romy/Sosa, but it also effectively blocks Sosa until 2025. Id probably do the swap for Crochet just because Sox have horribly managed him and he’ll probably never start for the Sox. But it’s not a deal I’d be overly excited about, tbh. 

4 win player that is younger than Romy Gonzalez is. The White Sox haven’t gotten 2 WAR at 2B since Tadahito Iguchi in 2006 

Edited January 7, 20233 yr by Y2Jimmy0

I haven’t followed him closely at all but I would take his 22 stats on the Sox in a heartbeat. We need pop anywhere we can get it.  While ideally 2B would be LH we can’t be too picky.  If the cost is Crochet sign me up. 

7 minutes ago, ChiSoxTrojan said:

I'm with you. Yes it makes the team better in 2023, but I could easily see Sosa or Popeye being able to put up Gleyber-like numbers by 2024, and they would be on rookie deals. I'd prefer a left-handed option that the Sox could easily move on from if it looks like one of the in-house guys is a long-term solution.

Ok then you can trade Gleybar next year for value rather then the boards preferred acquisition which is “not good enough that a rookie with slightly below average offense couldn’t surpass them without us incurring too much cost for moving on”

12 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

9 DRS and 4.8 UZR/150 last year at 2B is pretty good.  It’s very clear he’s not a SS and moving him between the two spots hurt him the past.  Also, a 115 wRC+ with 24 HRs is well above average for a 2B.  Your evaluation of Torres seems quite outdated.

Exactly. Also So strange how board buys into Joey gallo crumbling under New Yorks pressure but the guy getting crushed for not being the heir apparent to Jeter is never afforded same sympathy.

Unless Gleyber completely tanks in 23 he is still tradable if Sosa or Popeye are ready.  

7 minutes ago, ChiSoxTrojan said:

I'm with you. Yes it makes the team better in 2023, but I could easily see Sosa or Popeye being able to put up Gleyber-like numbers by 2024, and they would be on rookie deals. I'd prefer a left-handed option that the Sox could easily move on from if it looks like one of the in-house guys is a long-term solution.

Quite the optimistic take on Sosa and Popeye. Vaughn's been around 2 years and he hasn't put up those numbers yet. The Sox are going to have a lot of work to do on the starting pitching staff in 2024.

But won't happen anyway. Sox arent spending a player or paying Torres salary.

They can't even find a 4th OF who can play CF yet that they are willing to pay for.

7 minutes ago, bmags said:

Ok then you can trade Gleybar next year for value rather then the boards preferred acquisition which is “not good enough that a rookie with slightly below average offense couldn’t surpass them without us incurring too much cost for moving on”

That's fair. But with Torres around it would be hard to get a look at any of the rookies to be able to make that determination.

Really I'd be fine with the move, I'm mostly playing devil's advocate because I'd love for one of the in-house options to step up rather than having to pay $10M-$20M per year for 2B.

14 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

4 win player that is younger than Romy Gonzalez is. The White Sox haven’t gotten 4 WAR at 2B since Tadahito Iguchi in 2006 

People don't realize how big of a black hole 2B has been for decades. The Sox haven't had anyone go above 2 fWAR at 2nd since 2005, let alone 4.

19 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

4 win player that is younger than Romy Gonzalez is. The White Sox haven’t gotten 4 WAR at 2B since Tadahito Iguchi in 2006 

Negative value player defensively. 100 wRC+ career hitter against RHP. Not a bargain at $10-11M. 2.7 fWAR in 22 was best season since 2019. I don’t think he’s a 4 WAR player moving forward - if other clubs thought he was, Yanks could certainly do much better than Garrett Crochet elsewhere. 

Look, I said I’d do that deal. I just don’t think Gleyber is a good fit at all. Not because of Romy - Romy is just a guy. But I’d rather get someone who at least does one of hit righties well/LHH or plays plus defense, especially if we’re giving up Crochet and paying Torres $10M+. It’s a fine deal, but it’s far from perfect. But Sox don’t exactly have a lot of options. 

 

Edited January 7, 20233 yr by ChiSox59

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

Negative value player defensively. 100 wRC+ career hitter against RHP. Not a bargain at $10-11M. 2.7 fWAR in 22 was best season since 2019. I don’t think he’s a 4 WAR player moving forward - if other clubs thought he was, Yanks could certainly do much better than Garrett Crochet elsewhere. 

Look, I said I’d do that deal. I just don’t think Gleyber is a good fit at all. Not because of Romy - Romy is just a guy. But I’d rather get someone who at least does one or hit righties well/LHH or plays plus defense, especially if we’re giving up Crochet and paying Torres $10M+. It’s a fine deal, but it’s far from perfect. But Sox don’t exactly have a lot of options. 

 

Segura was sitting out there for a reasonable contract but the Sox decided to look elsewhere. It's not clear where the path is to getting functional play out of 2nd base this season given how many other cheaper alternatives like Wong & Segura have gone elsewhere.

I know the fit isn't great for a variety of reasons, but steamer has Gleyber as a 3.4 WAR player next season. That would be an enormous upgrade over what we've seen at 2B for decades here and frankly it's not outside the realm of possibility at all that number exceeds what Romy will put up in his entire career. Expecting him to be a viable big league hitter at all seems like it's a massive leap to me.

41 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

So what’s Bruce’s Soxtalk burner??

@tray

26 minutes ago, ChiSoxTrojan said:

That's fair. But with Torres around it would be hard to get a look at any of the rookies to be able to make that determination.

Really I'd be fine with the move, I'm mostly playing devil's advocate because I'd love for one of the in-house options to step up rather than having to pay $10M-$20M per year for 2B.

For Romy, I think that’s true. Given Sosa and Jose’s age I don’t see them sustaining success in AAA this year as a block. They have a lot they can work on, even if I’d like Sosa to work on it in majors.

But Romy is ideally our new Leury.

29 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

Segura was sitting out there for a reasonable contract but the Sox decided to look elsewhere. It's not clear where the path is to getting functional play out of 2nd base this season given how many other cheaper alternatives like Wong & Segura have gone elsewhere.

I know the fit isn't great for a variety of reasons, but steamer has Gleyber as a 3.4 WAR player next season. That would be an enormous upgrade over what we've seen at 2B for decades here and frankly it's not outside the realm of possibility at all that number exceeds what Romy will put up in his entire career. Expecting him to be a viable big league hitter at all seems like it's a massive leap to me.

Agreed all around. 

if there is any deal for Torres, I would think it might involve Crochet and either Kelly or Graveman.

Bruce’s insider info comes from the food accounts. 

There have been three writers now that have linked Gleybar to the Sox. Not necessarily the world beaters, but Bruce joins Bowden and then a few weeks ago Dan O’Dowd.