55 minutes ago, Milkman delivers said:

That’s a crazy good two rounds for San Diego. Wow.

They didn’t know what they had in Brees

11 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Unfortunately, the Bears fucked up their chances at Williams and MHJ by winning meaningless games.  That would have been a wet dream draft.

Williams / Odunze

This is the way.

I think this is incorrect. Us winning meaningless games was due to big improvements from our draft picks. We’d be way worse off if all our picks looked as bad as they did the first 5 games.

For one - there is way less pressure to draft an edge with one of our first rounders.

MHJ is great, but this is an awesome receiver class. Love Tez Walker too. 

5 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

They didn’t know what they had in Brees

And they managed to end up with another Hall of Famer. Yet the Bears can’t find one truly good QB.

What should the Bears do if Williams goes back to USC or pulls an Eli Manning and does not want to play a down for the Bears?

4 minutes ago, The Beast said:

What should the Bears do if Williams goes back to USC or pulls an Eli Manning and does not want to play a down for the Bears?

First, Williams has to make a decision by January 15, so there will be a complete decision by that point. He can't pull out of the draft the day beforehand. 

If he were to go back to college, then there's still seemingly a worthy #1 pick QB in Maye. The Bears then have a choice between Maye and Fields. You're going to have a lot of work to do to make a choice there, I'd probably still lean towards the drafted QB, but you have other options. Washington, New England, NYG all seem very likely to give you multiple picks to move up to #1 for Maye, they're currently in #3, #4, and #5, and this could of course change if Arizona wins one of their final 2 games (Admittedly moderately tough against the Eagles and Seahawks, but the Seahawks could potentially have a playoff spot locked up by the time that game starts). 

If the Bears want to stick with Fields, they could certainly take a worthy #1 pick in Harrison as well. If Arizona stays at #2 and Williams were to go back to school, it seems like MHJ probably goes to Arizona. If both QBs are in the draft, then I don't know what Arizona will do, but I'd be surprised if the 2 QBs didn't go 1-2. If Arizona wants a QB they'll take one, if they decide they don't want a QB they would be dumb not to trade back one slot to grab an extra pick.

If he does the "insist he won't play for the Bears" thing, you can take that into account if you decide to trade the pick, but boy that's just hard to believe actually happening. You literally don't want to play for a team in one of the biggest markets in the country? Why?

35 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

First, Williams has to make a decision by January 15, so there will be a complete decision by that point. He can't pull out of the draft the day beforehand. 

If he were to go back to college, then there's still seemingly a worthy #1 pick QB in Maye. The Bears then have a choice between Maye and Fields. You're going to have a lot of work to do to make a choice there, I'd probably still lean towards the drafted QB, but you have other options. Washington, New England, NYG all seem very likely to give you multiple picks to move up to #1 for Maye, they're currently in #3, #4, and #5, and this could of course change if Arizona wins one of their final 2 games (Admittedly moderately tough against the Eagles and Seahawks, but the Seahawks could potentially have a playoff spot locked up by the time that game starts). 

If the Bears want to stick with Fields, they could certainly take a worthy #1 pick in Harrison as well. If Arizona stays at #2 and Williams were to go back to school, it seems like MHJ probably goes to Arizona. If both QBs are in the draft, then I don't know what Arizona will do, but I'd be surprised if the 2 QBs didn't go 1-2. If Arizona wants a QB they'll take one, if they decide they don't want a QB they would be dumb not to trade back one slot to grab an extra pick.

If he does the "insist he won't play for the Bears" thing, you can take that into account if you decide to trade the pick, but boy that's just hard to believe actually happening. You literally don't want to play for a team in one of the biggest markets in the country? Why?

First - I am with you on the decision date for the draft. That is what I am implying.

I really would like the Bears to continue to stockpile picks, particularly from teams who will trade multiple first rounders and could bomb the next year. I don’t know much about Maye but that would certainly be an interesting decision between taking him and Fields. Maybe trading back to number 3 works well or taking the QB works well. The possibilities of the number one pick extend further than taking Williams or trading the pick. I would have to go back and study would the Chiefs did with Alex Smith to see if there are any similarities between what the Bears could do with Fields and draft a QB to replace him. I’m also not sure they will get a second round pick for him and he might return mid round picks.

As for the other scenario with Williams, I would have to look back to see if Manning was drafted and then traded to the Giants. I don’t fully understand why Williams would do this to the Bears either, but it still remains a possibility.

We will know a lot more by Black Monday and January 15.

Edited December 29, 20232 yr by The Beast

13 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Nope.  Fields already had ALL the weapons he needed this year in Moore, Mooney, and Kmet, along with three good RBs and a kicker who drained everything and received a 4-year, $16 million extension because of it.  The OL also improved over the course of the season.  Additionally, the defense improved GREATLY in the past few games and Fields still blew close games.  These two Score tools have been worshipping Fields for the past two years so they don’t have enough pride and common sense to get off that train at this point.  They are both blowhards.  I seem to remember in the off-season that everyone was in agreement that this was supposed to finally be the season for Fields to prove himself, and he didn’t.  Look at the stats.  He’s basically the same guy he was last year.  A slightly above average QB.  The Bears need to aspire for more from the QB position.

So an argument can be made that Fields blew the Denver game, but I don’t know if blame should be placed on him for the Lions and Browns losses. At least not squarely put on him. 

I disagree with your assessment of Bernstein and Holmes. I tend to think they are objective about the teams they cover and don’t think they have been “worshipping” Fields at all. 

I don’t know if pulling the plug on Fields after year 3 is the direction I want the franchise to go. We aren’t going to change each other’s minds and ultimately Poles will make the decision on what to do. He can own keeping Fields and passing on a quarterback or drafting one or dealing Fields and drafting one.

1 hour ago, The Beast said:

So an argument can be made that Fields blew the Denver game, but I don’t know if blame should be placed on him for the Lions and Browns losses. At least not squarely put on him. 

I disagree with your assessment of Bernstein and Holmes. I tend to think they are objective about the teams they cover and don’t think they have been “worshipping” Fields at all. 

I don’t know if pulling the plug on Fields after year 3 is the direction I want the franchise to go. We aren’t going to change each other’s minds and ultimately Poles will make the decision on what to do. He can own keeping Fields and passing on a quarterback or drafting one or dealing Fields and drafting one.

To me, the biggest thing with Fields comes down to the "Daniel Jones" question. Is anyone here ready to pay Justin Fields >$40 million a year? Right now, that is the going rate for holding onto a free agent QB, and the franchise tag is currently $36 million for that position and presumably going up. I can't see how I would justify that after the season he's had.

1 hour ago, The Beast said:

So an argument can be made that Fields blew the Denver game, but I don’t know if blame should be placed on him for the Lions and Browns losses. At least not squarely put on him. 

I disagree with your assessment of Bernstein and Holmes. I tend to think they are objective about the teams they cover and don’t think they have been “worshipping” Fields at all. 

I don’t know if pulling the plug on Fields after year 3 is the direction I want the franchise to go. We aren’t going to change each other’s minds and ultimately Poles will make the decision on what to do. He can own keeping Fields and passing on a quarterback or drafting one or dealing Fields and drafting one.

I would agree neither Bernstein and Holmes have worshipped Fields; however, both are suspiciously hesitant to criticize him. Listen to their interviews with Gordon Wittenmeyer from the Tribune. Holmes focuses more on the blame of coaching, Gordon focuses on Fields. And then Berstein will say, “I hate sideways football,” and criticize the playcalling but does any really believe Getsy is that dense? That he just wants his QB to fail? Or he has never considered the idea of consistently throwing down field? They don't trust Fields. The proof has always been there.

It’s a tough decision for Poles. He may think, with a few more offensive weapons from the draft, this is a playoff team. And I believe he would be right. But is that enough? Are we content with just making it, or creating a SB team? I’d rather aim higher and improve at the QB position with the 1st pick, take a OL with the 2nd pick, then supplement with (hopefully) a 2nd round pick from Fields. 

This is hilarious. 

If you think Fields is still the guy, you draft Harrison at #1 and the best OL you can get at 7 or whatever their pick ends up being.

Rumor out there by Hub that Sean Payton may get fired. Apparently he doesn't get along with the wrong people not to get along with in Denver. He'd look good on rhe west sideline at Soldier Field.

Edited December 30, 20232 yr by Dick Allen

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

Rumor out there by Hub that Sean Payton may get fired. Apparently he doesn't get along with the wrong people not to get along with in Denver. He'd look good on rhe west sideline at Soldier Field.

If hub actually hears something like this I will eat a hat

16 minutes ago, bmags said:

If hub actually hears something like this I will eat a hat

Watch Pro Football Weekly on NBCSC. He said he heard it from a really good source. What do you put on a hat before it goes down your gullet?

 

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

Rumor out there by Hub that Sean Payton may get fired. Apparently he doesn't get along with the wrong people not to get along with in Denver. He'd look good on rhe west sideline at Soldier Field.

I never understood that hire and what Denver was trying to do. Hiring Payton to get something out of Wilson doesn’t make sense to me. I’d be for bringing Payton on as long as he was straight fired and did not require draft compensation. Then again I don’t know if I would prefer him over up and coming coordinators in the league.

5 hours ago, Flash Tizzle said:

I would agree neither Bernstein and Holmes have worshipped Fields; however, both are suspiciously hesitant to criticize him. Listen to their interviews with Gordon Wittenmeyer from the Tribune. Holmes focuses more on the blame of coaching, Gordon focuses on Fields. And then Berstein will say, “I hate sideways football,” and criticize the playcalling but does any really believe Getsy is that dense? That he just wants his QB to fail? Or he has never considered the idea of consistently throwing down field? They don't trust Fields. The proof has always been there.

It’s a tough decision for Poles. He may think, with a few more offensive weapons from the draft, this is a playoff team. And I believe he would be right. But is that enough? Are we content with just making it, or creating a SB team? I’d rather aim higher and improve at the QB position with the 1st pick, take a OL with the 2nd pick, then supplement with (hopefully) a 2nd round pick from Fields. 

I can appreciate you and Balta having an actual conversation about Fields instead of just jumping on the Williams bandwagon. I think you mean Dan Weiderer. I know Weiderer and Biggs criticize Fields and I know Bernstein and Holmes blame other factors than just Fields. I never understood why Getsy didn’t throw down field in the middle of the field. Even if Fields turns the ball over, I’d prefer that or the possible big gain than screening defenses to death.

I am wondering if Poles thinks he can win enough to contend with an improved line and another wideout or if he wants to draft his own quarterback. It will make for a very interesting offseason.

5 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

To me, the biggest thing with Fields comes down to the "Daniel Jones" question. Is anyone here ready to pay Justin Fields >$40 million a year? Right now, that is the going rate for holding onto a free agent QB, and the franchise tag is currently $36 million for that position and presumably going up. I can't see how I would justify that after the season he's had.

I’m not ready for that yet. I would be for seeing him play out next year and the fifth year option though. The cost of that new deal would be a lot, but I take the point of the contract reset from drafting a QB and trading Fields.

5 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Watch Pro Football Weekly on NBCSC. He said he heard it from a really good source. What do you put on a hat before it goes down your gullet?

 

I’m not saying he didn’t say it, I’m saying if hub arkush actually gets real info like this on the Denver broncos I’ll eat a hat. 

2 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Rumor out there by Hub that Sean Payton may get fired. Apparently he doesn't get along with the wrong people not to get along with in Denver. He'd look good on rhe west sideline at Soldier Field.

Yeah - I’ll take Sean Payton, even if he is overly harsh - he has a track record and sets a standard. I am fine with Payton, Harbaugh or Belicheck. 

1 hour ago, bmags said:

I’m not saying he didn’t say it, I’m saying if hub arkush actually gets real info like this on the Denver broncos I’ll eat a hat. 

Why would you be so surprised by this?  He is the publisher and editor of Pro Football Weekly.  They definitely have their whiffs but I’m sure he has some sources from other NFL teams.

6 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Why would you be so surprised by this?  He is the publisher and editor of Pro Football Weekly.  They definitely have their whiffs but I’m sure he has some sources from other NFL teams.

As I said, I’ll eat a hat. 

I mean if Denver moves in from Wilson and Payton in the same offseason - how much coin did they lose. I can’t see an owner paying that much for those two to not be associated with their franchise. 

1 hour ago, The Beast said:

I never understood that hire and what Denver was trying to do. Hiring Payton to get something out of Wilson doesn’t make sense to me. I’d be for bringing Payton on as long as he was straight fired and did not require draft compensation. Then again I don’t know if I would prefer him over up and coming coordinators in the league.

I can appreciate you and Balta having an actual conversation about Fields instead of just jumping on the Williams bandwagon. I think you mean Dan Weiderer. I know Weiderer and Biggs criticize Fields and I know Bernstein and Holmes blame other factors than just Fields. I never understood why Getsy didn’t throw down field in the middle of the field. Even if Fields turns the ball over, I’d prefer that or the possible big gain than screening defenses to death.

I am wondering if Poles thinks he can win enough to contend with an improved line and another wideout or if he wants to draft his own quarterback. It will make for a very interesting offseason.

I’m not ready for that yet. I would be for seeing him play out next year and the fifth year option though. The cost of that new deal would be a lot, but I take the point of the contract reset from drafting a QB and trading Fields.

This isn't really about Caleb Williams. 

It's about trying to predict what the next 3-4 seasons look like and how the roster is constructed. Without rehashing a lot of things that have already been said, it's a lot harder to build a roster with a $45 million dollar QB in Fields when he hasn't shown enough in his 3 years. 

3 minutes ago, Tony said:

This isn't really about Caleb Williams. 

It's about trying to predict what the next 3-4 seasons look like and how the roster is constructed. Without rehashing a lot of things that have already been said, it's a lot harder to build a roster with a $45 million dollar QB in Fields when he hasn't shown enough in his 3 years. 

I have no clue if any of these qbs will be really good or not - but I do know that in 3 years Fields has shown he isn’t a good passer. And I’m not about to sign him for 40M. The past few weeks have not been very good to him - he has just not played very well in my mind. Missing a lot of easy  throws and just too slow to make reads. I hope I’m wrong cause nothing would make me happier than him being the guy for the Bears…I just don’t see it. 

This is a fireable offense for Poles. Eberflus has to go. 

 

Which likely means Fields stays 

4 minutes ago, fathom said:

Which likely means Fields stays 

I don’t think that’s the case at all. Now, if they bring in a new QB, should it be with a new HC and OC? Absolutely, but that’s not how the Bears have operated, basically ever. 
 

But I don’t think it’s a slam dunk by any means Fields is back. He may be, but I don’t think this tells us much about the Fields situation.