3 hours ago, mmmmmbeeer said:

Because saber is doing us so good now?

The rumors of clubhouse turmoil/indifference have been running rampant for the last few years, basically since Ricky was fired.  This team doesn't need fucking saber, they need leadership, accountability, benchings for poor effort, insistence on playing if you're just a lil' sore, etc.  Ozzie, for all his faults, is THAT guy.  Not to mention, if you listen to the pod, it's some of the Latino players who are least invested....Ozzie would be in their asses.  

Yeah, I’ll take sabermetrics over old school methods ANY day of the week. Seems to be working pretty damn well for the Dodgers, Rays, Astros, etc.

Ozzie’s antics would sour pretty damn quick on that clubhouse. You’re talking about a clubhouse filled with millennials. Screaming and yelling only gets you so far with certain type of people. And those type of people are rare among todays younger generations. Not saying I don’t think this team doesn’t need a kick in the ass but old school methods don’t have the same effect as they did 20 or 30 years ago.

Ozzie lacks the aptitude to change with how the game is played. If he was such a great option 29 other teams would have given him a chance by now. Thanks for 2005, but people seriously need to move on with him already. Or maybe the Bears should ask Ditka to come be their coach too?

Edited July 12, 20232 yr by CWSpalehoseCWS

3 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

If he wants to keep a job in the MLB, he won't.

I think he could find another position in the MLB in some capacity pretty easily. 

5 minutes ago, bmags said:

I think he could find another position in the MLB in some capacity pretty easily. 

I should have said: "if he wants a job as a GM he won't."

3 hours ago, T R U said:

Yeah and I also am not giving them credit for offering Machado a deal they knew he was never going to accept anyways. Knowingly doing that is the same as not offering at all in my opinion.

I'd say it's worse. Knowingly doing it feeding the fans BS and calling them stupid while doing so.

5 minutes ago, Snopek said:

I'd say it's worse. Knowingly doing it feeding the fans BS and calling them stupid while doing so.

Hey, just remember: talk to them after the parade.

@Harold's Leg Lift has been suggesting that Hahn is not safe in recent threads. I'm so very much hoping he's right.

2 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

@Harold's Leg Lift has been suggesting that Hahn is not safe in recent threads. I'm so very much hoping he's right.

While I would be content to be rid of him, I would be confused as to why he was allowed to make decisions on the rosters future in July if he wasn’t safe. Desperation moves when it looked like he had to do something to save his job is how we got Shields.

12 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

While I would be content to be rid of him, I would be confused as to why he was allowed to make decisions on the rosters future in July if he wasn’t safe. Desperation moves when it looked like he had to do something to save his job is how we got Shields.

The deadline will be telling, if they are fairly active you would imagine Hahn is probably safe as far as remaining with the organization in some capacity.

If they don't do much, hopefully, it means hes out. As you said, why would you let someone make a bunch of moves that you are getting rid of in a few months anyway.

20 minutes ago, T R U said:

The deadline will be telling, if they are fairly active you would imagine Hahn is probably safe as far as remaining with the organization in some capacity.

If they don't do much, hopefully, it means hes out. As you said, why would you let someone make a bunch of moves that you are getting rid of in a few months anyway.

How often do the Sox do something that's actually well thought out and logical?

20 minutes ago, T R U said:

The deadline will be telling, if they are fairly active you would imagine Hahn is probably safe as far as remaining with the organization in some capacity.

If they don't do much, hopefully, it means hes out. As you said, why would you let someone make a bunch of moves that you are getting rid of in a few months anyway.

Unfortunately, not making moves is making moves, or at least dictating them. If they don’t make moves, Giolito walks as a FA, Kelly walks as a FA, Lopez walks as a FA, they don’t clear any money so their budget next offseason stays super tight, and they find no depth to help next years roster which they are absolutely desperate for. Not very active makes a ton of decisions for the winter right now - even worse than last offseason.

5 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

How often do the Sox do something that's actually well thought out and logical?

Jersey designs and that's basically it 

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Unfortunately, not making moves is making moves, or at least dictating them. If they don’t make moves, Giolito walks as a FA, Kelly walks as a FA, Lopez walks as a FA, they don’t clear any money so their budget next offseason stays super tight, and they find no depth to help next years roster which they are absolutely desperate for. Not very active makes a ton of decisions for the winter right now - even worse than last offseason.

Reading this makes me feel like if you could go back in time to 2017 and lay out all the ways this rebuild could go, this is the absolute nightmare path I’d give almost no odds of happening. 

4 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

Reading this makes me feel like if you could go back in time to 2017 and lay out all the ways this rebuild could go, this is the absolute nightmare path I’d give almost no odds of happening. 

I think it’s a testament to the power of the technique that an organization operating this poorly in so many aspects was able to pull off a playoff appearance at all.

9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Unfortunately, not making moves is making moves, or at least dictating them. If they don’t make moves, Giolito walks as a FA, Kelly walks as a FA, Lopez walks as a FA, they don’t clear any money so their budget next offseason stays super tight, and they find no depth to help next years roster which they are absolutely desperate for. Not very active makes a ton of decisions for the winter right now - even worse than last offseason.

I think it will be pretty hard to botch trading Giolito at the deadline.

Kelly and Lopez, whatever, its not like you were getting high end talent for them anyways. If they dump guys like Grandal and Lynn for whatever they can get that's probably a win no matter what.

1 minute ago, T R U said:

I think it will be pretty hard to botch trading Giolito at the deadline.

Kelly and Lopez, whatever, its not like you were getting high end talent for them anyways. If they dump guys like Grandal and Lynn for whatever they can get that's probably a win no matter what.

Botching Giolito is easy. Don’t move him.

4 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

Reading this makes me feel like if you could go back in time to 2017 and lay out all the ways this rebuild could go, this is the absolute nightmare path I’d give almost no odds of happening. 

The Sox half assed the rebuild and likley had no strategic plan. Hahn tried to jump on the Houston?Cubs rebuild train without realizing how inferior his organization is comapred to the rest of the league. 

I think you have it backwards. The odds of the rebuild succeeding and resulting in a world series and multiple deep playoff runs had almost zero odds of happening the moment Hahn and company were put in charge of the rebuild. 

15 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

The Sox half assed the rebuild and likley had no strategic plan. Hahn tried to jump on the Houston?Cubs rebuild train without realizing how inferior his organization is comapred to the rest of the league. 

I think you have it backwards. The odds of the rebuild succeeding and resulting in a world series and multiple deep playoff runs had almost zero odds of happening the moment Hahn and company were put in charge of the rebuild. 

Joe Espada literally came in here and said thanks but no thanks, rather continue as a bench coach in a competent organization and wait for a promotion than to step onto Jerry and Hahn's dog s%*# covered baseball field / organization.

 

19 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Botching Giolito is easy. Don’t move him.

You have to move him.

I want Hahn gone as much as anyone else, and he has been bad at his job. One of the things he has done fairly well is trade established talent for prospects.

Eaton to Washington was a great return. Sale to Boston was a great return, Quintana to the Cubs was a great return.

Giolito is going to be one of the best SP available at the deadline, someone will pay over for him.

Sabermetrics is fine but that’s an organizational priority, what does it have to do specifically with the manager besides listening to advice on when to pitch hit, batting order etc. the minor league development people need to know this stuff more. This is a Hahn issue which is confusing because he’s an Ivy League mba, those dummies love this stuff. leads me to think it’s over his head.

The big league team manager needs to be a leader and get the most out of his players. And needs to be bilingual. Some sabermetrics nerd who learned a few things on excel isn’t that guy. Anyone on this board could do that job, minor statistical analysis that people probably learned their first semester of college. Pedro is none of these things besides ostensibly bilingual, but boy was it foolish to think a Cuban-American would fit into the Cuban thing the Sox having going on and be able to inspire moncada, Robert etc to play hard. They’re gonna blow that connection which is about the only thing this team has going for it over other franchises. 

5 hours ago, mmmmmbeeer said:

To use Chuck's phrasing, the Sox "have lost Moncada".  In context, I took it to mean he wants nothing to do with the team, doesn't try in the least, and seemed to be hinting at him being a clubhouse cancer.  They had similar comments regarding Eloy.

This.  He also said made a comment about Moncada showing up wearing gear with his own logo.  He made it clear that Moncada is all about himself and significant part of the clubhouse issues.   

4 minutes ago, T R U said:

Eaton to Washington was a great return. Sale to Boston was a great return, Quintana to the Cubs was a great return.

I don't know if it was a great return in all the trades when our team has been pathetic following the trades.

1 hour ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

Ozzie lacks the aptitude to change with how the game is played. If he was such a great option 29 other teams would have given him a chance by now. Thanks for 2005, but people seriously need to move on with him already. Or maybe the Bears should ask Ditka to come be their coach too?

Not fair assessment. If what this thread says is true that guys like Moncada and Eloy have quit on the organization (Timmy plays with no 'joy' either IMO, then you need Ozzie to come in and do what Ozzie does. Just cause he quit with 9 days left in the season when he was gonna get fired or move on in 9 days anyway, doesn't change that he's a good manager. This team needs a forceful manager and also some veterans who command a bit of respect (even Abreu seemed kinda passive in his last year regarding waking up some dormant to dead teammates).  Sox need Ozzie (as interim rest of season) and they need a few vets who deeply care (Konerkos, Fisks). Maybe there are no players who truly care anymore to acquire.

1 minute ago, greg775 said:

Not fair assessment. If what this thread says is true that guys like Moncada and Eloy have quit on the organization (Timmy plays with no 'joy' either IMO, then you need Ozzie to come in and do what Ozzie does. Just cause he quit with 9 days left in the season when he was gonna get fired or move on in 9 days anyway, doesn't change that he's a good manager. This team needs a forceful manager and also some veterans who command a bit of respect (even Abreu seemed kinda passive in his last year regarding waking up some dormant to dead teammates).  Sox need Ozzie (as interim rest of season) and they need a few vets who deeply care (Konerkos, Fisks). Maybe there are no players who truly care anymore to acquire.

If he were a good manager, he'd had a job managing.  Period. 

The game has evolved, and Ozzie hasn't.  

5 hours ago, mmmmmbeeer said:

Ozzie, for all his faults, is THAT guy. 

Don't see what making him interim would hurt. Except Pedro is probably making a good dollar and that'd be some money down the drain. And Ozzie would want some good money to manage for a couple months.

1 minute ago, greg775 said:

Not fair assessment. If what this thread says is true that guys like Moncada and Eloy have quit on the organization (Timmy plays with no 'joy' either IMO, then you need Ozzie to come in and do what Ozzie does. Just cause he quit with 9 days left in the season when he was gonna get fired or move on in 9 days anyway, doesn't change that he's a good manager. This team needs a forceful manager and also some veterans who command a bit of respect (even Abreu seemed kinda passive in his last year regarding waking up some dormant to dead teammates).  Sox need Ozzie (as interim rest of season) and they need a few vets who deeply care (Konerkos, Fisks). Maybe there are no players who truly care anymore to acquire.

I’ll disagree, and double down. Why isn’t Ozzie employed by one of the other 29 other teams if he is such an amazing manager? Sox have the best kept secret in baseball hidden away in their pre and post game shows?